If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
The charms classroom was clean and bright and ready for the first lesson of the year and Professor Schirmer was waiting at the front of the class for the students to arrive.
Was she in a good mood? Well she was ALMOST smiling, at least.
The desks are set up in the usual way, no funny business today.
Quote:
ooc: sorry for the time conversion confusion O_O I do not know how I got it so messed up, I'm totally usually an expert. I blame posting the notice before I was awake.
Don't worry if you can't join in from the beginning, this lesson will last through the weekend and this first post will be updated as the lesson progresses.
Questions so far: What should firsties know about charms? What do we know about incantations? How do we make a spell and its effects cease? Why do you think we will want to use Finite and NOT Finite Incantatem as the counterspell today? What do you know about Gripping Charms and what do you think they'd be useful for? The gripping charm you will learn today has the incantation 'Prehenso'. Can anyone guess how the meaning of this incantation relates to its purpose? Can you think of any related English words?
ooc instructions for practising activity can be found here and here
Class is OVER but come and play CAPTURE THE FLAG! This will be your homework and the game is worth 20 points each!
How do you stop a spell? Carigan sat in her seat, eyes wide, the gears in her mind turning. How could you possibly stop a spell? She didn't know the answer so she stared at all the students blurting out and giving answers.
Ameliah glanced around, grinning. She was so happy she wasn't the only one answering. That was what normally happened in classes. As her classmates eagerly answered, she started muttering spells and their uses, along with wand movements. Without touching her wand, of cource. She new not to perform magic without being directed to.
"Swish and flick. Wingardium leviosa -levitate objects. Accio? Summoning objects-- No, that's to complicated. It's the first class of the year, so we'd be doing something less complicated. Come on, come on. Lumos -light wand tip. No special movement for that. Could we be learning Lumos and Nox? Probably," she continued muttering charms and uses.
Raising his hand at her question, he replied "Finite incantatem meaning finish the incantation. Sometimes the incantation might have a countercurse or jinx, and that would work as well." Ok, he'd over expanded on the answer, but better to be safe then sorry right?
The squealing was one thing, the blurting another.
But the world ended because Professor Schirmer did NOT take points. "I'll tell you soon. Be patient."
---------------------
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
How could she be patient when she was sooooooo excited to a point that she felt like dancing. Probably not a good idea to do in class. Kacie took in a deep breath and let it out to try and calm herself, it helped a little. "Finite Incantatem is used to cancel mostly all spells, but some spells have their own special incantations to stop them." she said, after raising her hand this time. "The Lumos charm is a good example of one that has an incantation to turn out the light."
w.a.m.s|♩♫♪♬|sour gummy snakes| "DNA doesn't make a family, Love does"
Cardigan sat quietly and listened,as she didn't know much.She had always learned better that way.And when you're dealing with charms or any other magical thing,you want to learn!
Why couldn't they find out already what spell the Professor had in mind for that class. Oh, another question, she thought and tried to find an answer as quick as possible. 'We can use Finite Incantatem', the Ravenclaw said after having raised her hand. The counter curse might be longer... or one might forget it. It's impossible to know ALL spells, and all counter curses. Psh. Finite incantatem should work on anything.
Oh hopfully a good spell.... LuLu's hand raised up in the air ''Well you would usually use a Counter spell, which is a type of spell where the spell removes the effects of another! Finite Incantatem is a general counter spell I believe, Proffeser,'' She sighed it was now killing her what type of spell were they doing..
A long lasting charm? Ellie was....excited. Which she was displeased about because she didn't want to be excited for Schirmer's lesson. But she was curious. And excited. Darn.
"A counter charm? Or finite seems to work with most spells." Most. Not all. "Or, if it's a charm that you perform while holding your wand, simply breaking your concentration or the grip from the wand can work." Though that worked better with transfiguration, in her opinion.
__________________
a practical person, who may be considered a perfectionist,
perhaps you like being organised or paying close attention to detail, you are...
"As many of you have said, with incantations there is a relationship with meaning and result. Incantations are often Latin or Greek based but not always. They are the words or word we use in order to cast a specific spell." Althea began.
"The pronunciation of any one incantation is very important. And sometimes the pronunciation doesn't reflect the root of the word as well as we might expect, or follow particular grammar rules. However you'll often find the emphasis falls on the second syllable if there are two or three syllables in the incantation." The professor continued and paused to allow for the students to catch up.
"As some of you mentioned," And she nodded at Miss Stewart-Quinn, "The incantation is the way your thoughts channel the spell you are casting, whether you think about it or say it, the incantation channels your intent, because of the links between the meaning and the intended outcome."
"This is a very important point." Althea said, after young Eino had finished speaking. "Latin, and Ancient Greek, and other ancient languages used for forming incantations, are not growing and changing the same way as English or other modern tongues. This means that the associated meanings are stable and our understanding of these meanings remains consistent."
So write that down and all.
"2 points, Mr Uronen for bringing that up." She added, almost absently.
"We can talk about it further later if you like. Do feel free to stay after class, I can help you then."
"That's true, at least for learners. I could, for instance, point my wand at something and say turn green, and have it turn green if I also concentrated on the appropriate incantation. To all intents and purposes that would be non-verbal magic." Althea said.
The professor nodded at the question.
"Societies without links to Latin or Ancient Greek are more likely to develop spells that have incantations based on other languages. However, where the language is still in use, it is less common as the meanings can continue to change. Where a language is more nuanced and subtle, or where the meaning is conveyed as much with how words are said, and who says them- as rich as such languages may be- they are less effective for spell-making." Althea answered, giving a bit of detail.
"A stable semantic relationship between the incantation and the intended spell result is necessary for a spell to be memorable and effective. And too, where spells already exist, why seek alternatives just because the language which forms the root of an incantation is unfamiliar? They start out unfamiliar for most of us, which is the point of learning after all."
While she listened to the girl's whole answer, she only responded to the last part specifically. The rest had been addressed in her response to the students as a whole.
"You're thinking," Which she liked, "But incantations have a semantic relationship with the associated spell. It is the deciding factor not only in how they are chosen, but in allowing you to focus your magic, and of course remember the incantation and which spell it goes with."
Much better, Head Boy.
SPOILER!!: Kurumi, Louisa and Eino
"In point of fact," Althea began, after listening to the students, her eyes focusing on Kurumi, "The risk of just saying a word that happens to be an incantation and causing a spell to happen is slight, and it does depend greatly on what intent you hold in your mind. For instance if there was a spell where you could start a fire by saying 'fire', and your mind happened to be full of anger or passion or other fiery thoughts, then you COULD possibly cause a bit of a fire as a result, if that intent is driven by your emotions, and that would be dangerous.
Likewise if you were talking about a spell and thinking about that spell while you said the incantation, there'd be a risk of accidentally casting it before you meant to - a big reason why I do NOT allow students to practice before instructions have been given, and why I prefer wands to stay down or holstered until directed- but that would mean you had the intent in your mind.
But there does have to be intent behind it. Whether it is directed and concentrated focus such as you learn to apply in class, or undirected, and emotion-driven intent such as children often show as their first indication of magic. If you have a magical association with an incantation, you might subconsciously latch onto that and have your intent be driven by those associations. Like the 'Pack' example, or even 'Point me', which are both incantations in English, but the intention and the knowledge of the semantic relationship would have to be present.
In short, it is possible, and it is one of the reasons some words would not do, but the other factors, intent and wand movement would come into play quite heavily. There would still need to be an imperative behind it."
Soo... don't wave your wand around while having a heated conversation with a friend. It was a bit like thinking about the Elephant in the room when you were trying to ignore it.
"5 points from Slytherin for being late to my lesson." The professor said immediately.
Ooc: Please read the Charms Code of Conduct. Once the class has begun, you don't post arriving! This is the case in all subjects, just like in real life you have to be on time. If you're not there at the start in our RP lessons, you just pretend like you were.
--------------------------------------
"We're going to learn a spell next and then we shall go outside and... apply it." Althea informed them.
"Are there any questions before we move ahead?"
SPOILER!!: Tayla's Charms Notes
Charms Lesson 1
Charms - leaves alone the base object and gives its properties or changes behaviour
(unlike Transfiguration which changes what something fundamentally is)
*not necessarily seven types of spells (arbitrary)
3 main components of a spell:
Wand movement
Incantation
Intent - most important; some can cast spells without wand or words
Incantations
- have relationship with meaning and result
- often but not always based on Latin or Greek
- word/s used to cast a spell
- the way your thoughts channel the spell you are casting, whether you think about it or say it
- channels your intent, because of the links between the meaning and the intended outcome
*pronunciation important
*emphasis falls on second syllable if there are 2 or 3 syllables
*Latin and Greek languages don't change (dead languages) so words used are stable and meanings are consistent (unlike English and other languages which tend to change over time)
INTENT
- very important; influenced by emotion, focus, with or without words - or even with a word that is not the usual incantation
"I've got a question, Professor," Tayla said a little nervously, suddenly wondering about something as she listened to the professor and took down notes. "Why is it harder for others to learn spells? And why do they become more powerful with other witches or wizards when the words are the same and the intent to use the spell is the same?" There was so much 'intent' could do, but when it came to aurors and dark wizards for example, wasn't there intent to use the same spells basically the same? How did the brilliant ones - whether good or bad - become so brilliant? Tayla hoped the professor understood her question and didn't think it stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz
"Both. Consider though, that all spells are invented at some point. Its about finding that balance between incantation, wand movement and of course intent. Its hard work to invent effective spells. I can recommend a few books on the subject if you like." Professor Schirmer answered, keeping it brief since it was a bit off topic.
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
Tayla's attention suddenly grew when Professor Schirmer mentioned books on inventing spells. Her grandmother was a spell inventor. Maybe the professor could help her figure out the secret of her grandmother's locket. "Some other time..." Tayla decided. But she would definitely ask one of these days, or at least borrow a couple of helpful books.
Her mind getting back to class, Tayla raised her hand and answered the question. "You can perform protective spells if you want to stop it from happening to you or to someone else. The Shield Charm is one example. As for jinxes, there are counter-curses to stop their effect."
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
Sophie raised her hand. "Counter-spells!" she thought they might learn Lumos or some simple spell like that. "You know, like 'Nox', or Alohomora with the Colloportus one! Or... Sonorus and Quietus! Or um... uh... yeah, those!" she smiled.
Ameliah sat as quietly in the back as before. She had taken a good long time reciting spells under her breath. How come no one heard her? Even whispering, she was loud. Her curiosity was aching her head. She was excited the most for Charms class when she began. She had now decided they were most likely learning Lumos. A lurch in her stomach told her she couldn't wait to go out in the open air and learn. She started squirming in her desk, and instinctively reached for her pendant and was immediatly relieved. That pendant was very special, as it was from her best friend, whom she loved. He was supposed to be forgotton when the project began, but she never did. He's an adult now, but she still had her pendant that made her think of her past life and allways made her feel good.
After raising her hand and being called upon, Em anwwered, "Well, if you only want to stop the spell placed on a specific object, you could use Finite. But if you need to cover a whole area, Finite Incantatem is the better counter-spell. Those spell would work, but she couldn't help but ask "About how long will the spell last on its own?"
__________________
So many things are possible
just as long as you don't know they're impossible
Taylor raised her hand meekly, "Well a counter spell could do it but if a person doesn't remember the counter-spell or can't get the words right then couldn't they use Finite Incantatem, i mean wouldn't that work for about everything?" Taylor tilted her head a little bit then remembered something that she read, "Well it of course doesn't work on the unforgiveable curses but there is no way of stopping those right?"
Toothless - Napoleon of Crime - Gryffinclaw - Owl Emissary - Pirate Auror - DoctorDonna
Gideon had heard the familiar squeal and turned slightly to look at his sister just as she blurted out questions. He bit his lip hoping there wasn't trouble, a mixture of concern for his house as well as Kacie on his mind as he turned his attention back to Professor Schirmer. When no bad reaction was given other then the woman telling her to be patient, the Gryffindor let out asmall breath he hadn't realized he had been holding.
One down...however many more to go.
Back to the classwork.
"Couldn't one also stop a spell simply by losing or dropping focus from the spell," he suggested after raising his hand. His classmates had already offered the two most common options so he figured to try something different.
__________________
Last edited by Holmesian Feline; 01-07-2012 at 06:25 PM.
Reason: fixng code
Ameliah smiled and looked to her left. She knew she heard that voice before. It was Taylor, her best friend that she met on the train. She must not have noticed Taylor before. Well, Ameliah thought, I'm not completely alone in here. At least Taylor got to sit with me.
"Hey, Taylor!" Ameliah whispered, grinning.
A long lasting charm? Ellie was....excited. Which she was displeased about because she didn't want to be excited for Schirmer's lesson. But she was curious. And excited. Darn.
"A counter charm? Or finite seems to work with most spells." Most. Not all. "Or, if it's a charm that you perform while holding your wand, simply breaking your concentration or the grip from the wand can work." Though that worked better with transfiguration, in her opinion.
Justin listened to the other students answers and agreed Ellie, though he wasn't about to repeat what she said seeing as how it was the same one he would've given.
Shel's owner<3 / SSRPG wanderer // Nat luffs you ^^/ Half Slyther half dor =))
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
As Tennessee listened to what Professor Schirmer asked, she started to think. "You say the counter spell which is "Finite Incantatem, Professor," Tenn said. "It is a general spell though. As far as i remember in my readings it can be used to stop a wide variety of spells."
Melanie's head was spinning with possibilities at the mention of a long-lasting charm. What could it possibly be? she wondered. Even without knowing what the charm would be, Melanie offered what she thought was an obvious answer to the professor's query.
"Well, you could use the counter-spell, or some kind of negating spell," she said, her hand raised. "That would work for...just about everything," she added, wanting to cover her bases just in case there were some spells that couldn't be undone.
Baguette | there is no D in my name | TRAITORclaw | Queenie of Narnia
Text Cut: Professor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz
"As many of you have said, with incantations there is a relationship with meaning and result. Incantations are often Latin or Greek based but not always. They are the words or word we use in order to cast a specific spell." Althea began.
"The pronunciation of any one incantation is very important. And sometimes the pronunciation doesn't reflect the root of the word as well as we might expect, or follow particular grammar rules. However you'll often find the emphasis falls on the second syllable if there are two or three syllables in the incantation." The professor continued and paused to allow for the students to catch up.
"As some of you mentioned," And she nodded at Miss Stewart-Quinn, "The incantation is the way your thoughts channel the spell you are casting, whether you think about it or say it, the incantation channels your intent, because of the links between the meaning and the intended outcome."
"This is a very important point." Althea said, after young Eino had finished speaking. "Latin, and Ancient Greek, and other ancient languages used for forming incantations, are not growing and changing the same way as English or other modern tongues. This means that the associated meanings are stable and our understanding of these meanings remains consistent."
So write that down and all.
"2 points, Mr Uronen for bringing that up." She added, almost absently.
"We can talk about it further later if you like. Do feel free to stay after class, I can help you then."
"That's true, at least for learners. I could, for instance, point my wand at something and say turn green, and have it turn green if I also concentrated on the appropriate incantation. To all intents and purposes that would be non-verbal magic." Althea said.
The professor nodded at the question.
"Societies without links to Latin or Ancient Greek are more likely to develop spells that have incantations based on other languages. However, where the language is still in use, it is less common as the meanings can continue to change. Where a language is more nuanced and subtle, or where the meaning is conveyed as much with how words are said, and who says them- as rich as such languages may be- they are less effective for spell-making." Althea answered, giving a bit of detail.
"A stable semantic relationship between the incantation and the intended spell result is necessary for a spell to be memorable and effective. And too, where spells already exist, why seek alternatives just because the language which forms the root of an incantation is unfamiliar? They start out unfamiliar for most of us, which is the point of learning after all."
While she listened to the girl's whole answer, she only responded to the last part specifically. The rest had been addressed in her response to the students as a whole.
"You're thinking," Which she liked, "But incantations have a semantic relationship with the associated spell. It is the deciding factor not only in how they are chosen, but in allowing you to focus your magic, and of course remember the incantation and which spell it goes with."
Much better, Head Boy.
SPOILER!!: Kurumi, Louisa and Eino
"In point of fact," Althea began, after listening to the students, her eyes focusing on Kurumi, "The risk of just saying a word that happens to be an incantation and causing a spell to happen is slight, and it does depend greatly on what intent you hold in your mind. For instance if there was a spell where you could start a fire by saying 'fire', and your mind happened to be full of anger or passion or other fiery thoughts, then you COULD possibly cause a bit of a fire as a result, if that intent is driven by your emotions, and that would be dangerous.
Likewise if you were talking about a spell and thinking about that spell while you said the incantation, there'd be a risk of accidentally casting it before you meant to - a big reason why I do NOT allow students to practice before instructions have been given, and why I prefer wands to stay down or holstered until directed- but that would mean you had the intent in your mind.
But there does have to be intent behind it. Whether it is directed and concentrated focus such as you learn to apply in class, or undirected, and emotion-driven intent such as children often show as their first indication of magic. If you have a magical association with an incantation, you might subconsciously latch onto that and have your intent be driven by those associations. Like the 'Pack' example, or even 'Point me', which are both incantations in English, but the intention and the knowledge of the semantic relationship would have to be present.
In short, it is possible, and it is one of the reasons some words would not do, but the other factors, intent and wand movement would come into play quite heavily. There would still need to be an imperative behind it."
Soo... don't wave your wand around while having a heated conversation with a friend. It was a bit like thinking about the Elephant in the room when you were trying to ignore it.
"5 points from Slytherin for being late to my lesson." The professor said immediately.
Ooc: Please read the Charms Code of Conduct. Once the class has begun, you don't post arriving! This is the case in all subjects, just like in real life you have to be on time. If you're not there at the start in our RP lessons, you just pretend like you were.
--------------------------------------
"We're going to learn a spell next and then we shall go outside and... apply it." Althea informed them.
"Are there any questions before we move ahead?"
Vashti listened intently as the professor spoke, jotting down more notes and smiling a bit when Eino earned two points. Good job, Eino! What Professor Schirmer said in response to her answer made sense too. If one knew how to perform the spell noverbally, they probably could say "turn green" out loud, and it would work, though "turn green" wasn't the incantation. Vashti made a mental note to try it later. It'd be good practice on nonverbals at least, which was something she needed.
She continued her notes until the professor asked if there were any questions. Vashti had no questions, but she did set her quill down for another little break from note-taking. Merlin, her hand was sore...
Text Cut: Professor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz
"Both. Consider though, that all spells are invented at some point. Its about finding that balance between incantation, wand movement and of course intent. Its hard work to invent effective spells. I can recommend a few books on the subject if you like." Professor Schirmer answered, keeping it brief since it was a bit off topic.
"You'll be in trouble, because if you break something it will be because you haven't followed my instructions." Althea answered. "And if you break someone..." The Hufflepuff got a searching look at that.
If somehow the little 'puff killed someone or broke off a body part or two, Althea supposed it'd be detention.
Depending on who the someone was.
"If you pay attention you'll be fine." She assured the girl.
The squealing was one thing, the blurting another.
But the world ended because Professor Schirmer did NOT take points. "I'll tell you soon. Be patient."
---------------------
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
That small break ended when inventing spells was mentioned. It didn't have to do with what they were discussing, but Vashti wrote down what Professor Schirmer said on side of her parchment anyway. Spell-inventing was interesting, after all.
Now...how to stop a spell from working? Setting her quil down once more, Vashti raised her hand. "You generally have to use a counter-charm to stop the spell before the time it's meant to wear off. Sometimes a spell will have a specific counter-spell - like the Banishing and Summoning Charms - but if you don't know it or forget what it is, you can usually use Finite, if you want to stop the effect on a specific object, or the more general Finite Incantatem."
There was also another way that suddenly popped into her head: She'd read somewhere that usually a long-lasting spell stopped working when the witch or wizard who cast it died. But she didn't offer that one. None of them would be dying during this lesson, so that surely wasn't an answer Professor Schirmer was looking for...
__________________
if we fall, we will fall together; and when we rise, we will rise together__________________♥♥♥♥ together we are dangerous; together with our differences; together we are bolder, braver, stronger
"You'll be in trouble, because if you break something it will be because you haven't followed my instructions." Althea answered. "And if you break someone..." The Hufflepuff got a searching look at that.
If somehow the little 'puff killed someone or broke off a body part or two, Althea supposed it'd be detention.
Depending on who the someone was.
"If you pay attention you'll be fine." She assured the girl.
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
Laura didn't really like this Professor much, she was scaring her with the way she was looking, it was only a question and the Professor had asked did they have any questions. "Okay Professor."
Laura looked at the Professor and smiled before saying. "Professor to stop a spell you just throw you wand on the floor and stamp on it." Well surely that would stop the spell.
Nessie raised her hand silently. She felt much more confident this year than the last where she had struggled with question's like these. Most wizard born children knew the answer from the top of their head because they had seen their parents use them. She had always lived with muggles so it was a bit harder for her. "Well, most the times spells can be canceled with 'Finite Incantatem' but there can sometimes be counter spells that apply to a specific spell, charm or curse."
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
Ooh a long lasting charm, that was new. She was trying to wrap her mind around what sort of spell that could be, but couldn't come up with anything..
but she had an idea of how to "switch it off", she raised her hand slightly "Well you could always use the counter spell, but if you don't know that you can use "Finite Incantatem" Which works on almost everything." or so she thought.. she'd never even tried the spell before. Maybe they'd get to today?
"The spell we're going to be learning is a fairly long-lasting charm, one that needs to be 'switched off' so to speak, when you wish for it to cease. So before we get into the new charm, how do you stop a spell from working?"
Easy question with a few answers. She waited, looking for a specific one.
August knew this answer, it seemed he had learned a lot more last term than he had thought. The Gryffindor raised his hand.
"There are a few ways to end the effects of a spell the most common would be with another spell like 'Finite' or just losing concentration, but there is also the more sinister and dark way like...." um. Yeah. "death. If the caster is killed or passes away many times their long-lasting spells will cease too."
That last way was obviously not the preferred or easiest method.
Since everyone had more or less said the same thing, Eino raised his hand, hoping to share something that hadn't yet been said. "In addition to counter-spells, could some charms also be countered, though there might be a better word to describe it, by the use of potions? For example, could the Growth Charm possibly be countered with a Shrinking Potion if the brew was more powerful than the spell?" Potions were generally used to nullify and counter the effect of hexes and curses, so it could work with Charms, too. He knew this was a Charms class and that professor Schirmer was interested in charms, but hopefully it didn't hurt to point that out as an alternative.
Charms Introduction & Gripping Charm 
x1
x4
