"Not necessarily Professor," Simon admitted speaking up for the first time in a while. The boy having been busy listening over what the others were mentioning. Not to mention the fact that his friend hadn't learned his lesson and was kicked from the class. "But obviously the more extreme from the Knights were for them to have developed into the group we know as the Death Eaters as you mentioned."

"Nawww," Ellie said. They weren't DARK. Pshhhh. "They just wanted to make sure the ickle kiddies were protected from mean sorts of muggles. Like the sorts that were all into witch hunts." Mean muggles.

Nika looked a bit confused."Err, well I thought since a lot of people mentioned that the Knights later became known as the death eaters that most of them would be interested in the dark arts. And if they wanted to get rid of muggles and muggleborns I thought they would have to use the dark arts to get rid of them." Nika looked at her professor hoping that she didn't say much wrong this time.

"Well no Professor. It doesn't seem as if they were a dark organisation or anything. I think they were just realistic and sane for the time they were living in. Then again we don't know every single persons motivation for joining the group so it's hard to judge." At least Sakura thought that made it hard to judge. But she wasn't going to speculate again considering the way the Headmaster had brushed off her last answer. Had she not already said that they did believe that muggles and muggle borns were dangerous? Then again maybe the problem was the way she phrased her answer. Maybe she hadn't got her point across properly. Whatever. She was just going to be quiet now and only give the barest facts that she could.

Satine let out a little puff of air and checked her hands to make sure she was still there...yeppers still here...she thought to herself. Then she focused back in on the conversation/discussion going on...hesitant to add her ideas. But being Satine and having the academic bug in her, she raised her hand and plastered her smile on her face..."Sir, I think just ultimately everyone just assumes that since both were against muggles so strongly that they were Dark Wizards..." she paused and then continued, "I believe Slytherin was associated with the dark arts merely because of his chamber of secrets issue and that he could communicate with snakes." she took a deep breath and then continued, "And I don't know but there doesn't really seem to be any evidence that screams that they were one way of the other when it came to being Dark Wizards...you know no bloody shoeprint pointing towards their guilt..." she hoped that made sense.

"Well Professor, we know that Slytherin stood for pureblood supremacy, so the others were probably going for that. Their motivation would be to purge the entire British Isles of all Muggleborns, and perhaps half-bloods. And they possibly stood for wizardry life should be out in the open to purge the world of muggles, and squibs, along with muggleborns and Half-bloods."

Benjamin looked over to Jaina and she looked as thought she were going to cry. He felt bad for her and wanted to stand up to the professor to tell him that this was a totally inappropriate subjuject for the muggleborns.

Kurumi was too busy taking notes on the current discussion to allow herself enough time to forumlate a proper response or question in her head. There certainly were many pieces to the puzzle that they were all trying to put together, but it sure seemed like there was a proper place for each of those pieces. All this talk about pureblood supremency and what could have happened was beginning to give her a headache.

Kurumi glanced over at a first year Slytherin boy. "Was their aim really just the British Isles though? If someone thought that only purebloods should be around, I doubt that they would stop there."

The Knights? Isn't that what he had said? Nope ok. "Ohh....ok, sorry Professor." He shouldn't have said that should he. His father had been around some of those people before he was...out of the picture. But surely no one around here would know who the Cult people were. Besides people like that were definately not anywhere near Hogwarts.

Then the second question, were they dark wizards? "Professor, I feel like that would be an unjust statement to lump all of the Knights into the category of Dark Wizards. You can't say that all of them are bad because some were. There are many who's causes within the group were merely for other things besides Muggle control or eradication." he said and then opened his mouth to talk again, when it sounded like he knew alot about them, too much perhaps. "I mean, according to the stories." Niiice save. *headdesk*

As if those were the only reasons he would have trusted only purebloods. Same as my grandparents, except held in higher esteem. Not that he doesn't deserve it for some things, like his role in the actual founding of the school, but in the long run he likely did just as much or more harm as good.

Her thoughts were running so quickly and in so many directions they brought her to the verge of tears. On one hand, she would not have been able to stand it had she not said anything about Tate's comments, but on the other, she was now absolutely certain that he didn't take her seriously. Probably. She scoffed privately; combined with Tate's tone of voice, it was a telltale comment.
As she attempted to refocus, she noticed that Jaina was tearing up as well, and many students, including nearly all of the other first-years. seemed to be having trouble emotionally with the lesson.
Pureblood supremacy is not a good topic in a class composed mostly of muggleborns and Slytherins who think they shouldn't be here. And for a first lesson? I'd like to know what he's hoping to accomplish.
She did, however, decide to hold her tongue this time, forcing different words up from her throat.
"They wanted to rid at least the area that feeds students to the Hogwarts student body of muggleborn wizards and witches, and possibly muggles and half-bloods as well."

When in doubt, simply taking good notes and being agreeable are the better choices.

"No professor I don't believe there is... I mean its based on this notion that muggle-borns and those from mixed heritage were not trustworthy, and this at the time was a valid idea. I don't believe they were dark, they were just cautious. Though perhaps their ideologies have been scewed and misinterpretted over time... this is where the death eaters come in."

Jaina was now looking at the floor with her head on the desk. Her arms were wrapped around her stomach. Her once red curls had since straightened and turned black. She was so scared. Already a freak among freaks (as her parents would say), she knew she would be marked most definitely. Tears began to well up in her eyes. Just hold on a few more minutes, Jaina, she thought as she wiped them with her robe's sleeve. Just hang on until the end of class and you can find somewhere to let it out. This was all too much to take in so early in the school year, especially when she had only just found out who and what she was.

seeing his housemate tear up and not knowing what was a matter he gives her a small smile when she wipes the tears and mouths " it could be worse it could be divination"

"Professor? May I be excused? I feel as though I'm going to be sick. Please?"

Benjamin sat there and waited forthe professors permission. Not like he did in Transfiguration, where he just walked out.

Finally catching up on all her note taking and listening in on the discussion, Kurumi now felt like she could formulate some sort of response to the Headmaster's latest question. "Professor, is it true that the Knights were interested in exploring the more forbidden areas of magic? Those areas that we have come to call the Dark Arts. That being true, it would put them in the same category as Dark Wizards," Kurumi reasoned. "Salazar Slytherin advocated teaching based on ancestry, and if he bread basilisks, well, that is a trait attributed to Dark Wizards." Kurumi paused for a moment. "I think one thing that many of us have a hard time separating, due to the events of the First and Second Wizarding Wars, is that advocating purebloods does not automatically make you a Dark Witch or Wizard. Studying and practicing the Dark Arts does." Kurumi knew that much was true for her thanks to a certain character named Voldemort. "I am sure there are students among us now who think that purebloods are better or are very proud of their blood status, but that doesn't mean that they are Dark Wizards." At least, she sure hoped that wasn't the case.

Kurumi then turned her attention to the older girl who had asked about broken hearts. "Well, a traumatic breakup or the death of a loved one can cause the release of stress hormones in the body that then can trigger a heart attack in people prone to them, induce a life-threatening irregular heartbeats, or cause a syndrome that mimics a heart attack in otherwise healthy hearts," Kurumi said rather point blank. She had read that in some science magazine somewhere. "So, I suppose it is possible."

"Sweet," Jake smiled, leaning back slightly in his chair and glancing at Neptune. She was proud of his Ravenclaw tendencies, right?!

Tate seemed to notice how awesome he was, though.

All in all, a successful lesson so far.

"I don't think the Knights were Dark to begin with. I think they shared Slytherin's view about protecting wizardkind and stuff from persecution... but one or a few might have gone a little... extreme. Started the kind of activities which led to the whole Dark stuff and the Death Eater ideals... maybe," Jake tried. Now he WAS doing good he was more inclined to try harder to do better.

Nice.

"Because there were people like Voldemort and magic like Dark Arts to keep you alive for centuries. Well, and potions too of course. Not to mention Necromancers...."

"I agree with....Jake!" Patroclus grinned, almost forgetting the Lawsonator's adopted son, "The Knights arose as a response to the need for protection of Magical communities at a time when Muggles were waging war against the population. They were protectors, ensuring the survival of the magical blood lines, and it was possible from this that their reputation as Muggle-born haters came from."

Patroclus hadn't read all that much on the Walpurgis Knights, however certain posters in Diagon Alley whad resparked his interest.

"Perhaps their pro Purebloood leaning, were just a reaction to their desire to keep magic alive, they saw that pureblood with pureblood breeding as a way to ensure the continuation of Magical lines."

Now he was the sciency part, "We have to remember that this was the Middle Ages, they had no way of knowing the result of muggle and magical breeding. It is easy to believe that they would have thought that mixing the bloods would bred out the magical blood altogether." It was sad but it had happened before. "If we look at History the affects of assimilation are everywhere, the Indigenous people of Australia and the America's were breed with the White Europeans as a way to eradicate the native blood, causing half-casts, and eventually breeding them out all together."

Histroy was not pleasant some times, but it had to be examine, to improve the future.

Ah...

It was interesting to hear that Jake liked his idea for Josh thought the Hufflepuff hated him or the fact that he existed. Hmm. Looking at his way, he nodded to show that he agreed and for some reason he decided to leave him alone after class.

Ravenclaw ways... Hahahahaha! He knew this was his mother's fault who had been a proud Ravenclaw. At least it looked like his she-snake did not find it annoying so there was no problem.

Grinning back at her, the Gryffindor boy put an arm around her shoulders and just watched her beauty as she exchanged words with Jake until Tatertot attacked him again.

What!

Another point loss? Okay maybe this was expected if he saw him walking in the middle of the class but being asked to leave the class was not something Josh reckoned.

Fixing his gaze on the man, he tried not to glare, he jumped on his feet. ''I am sorry professor but i have to say that i don't think this is fair.'' Excused from the class? Excused? ''I guess you meant kicked out the class''

In order to not to disrespect the professor, the boy tried to keep the anger which was slowly replacing his usual indifferent attitude under control but groaned when Tate took points from Evelyn as well. Josh could not tolerate anything that would bother or disappoint her ''She did not do anything wrong'' but there was nothing he could do. He was the headmaster.

''And i did not mean to disrupt the class'' That was one thing he needed to know before he left ''I am sorry''. And he was about to leave the class when hearing that his she-snake preferred to stay which made him halt for a moment. Plus she did not react to the fact that the Gryffindor was kicked out.

...
...

For some reason he could not understand this slightly hurt something inside him and his expression which remained untroubled despite the point loss and other things became upset for the first time for a very long time.

Before starting to walk away, Josh glanced at the Slytherin girl again for the last time and whispered as he moved towards the door:

''I love you''

Then without even looking his back again he left the class with a broken heart.

To the forbidden forest where he was going to be alone.

...

SPOILER!!: Jaaaake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoerawrr

"Sweet," Jake smiled, leaning back slightly in his chair and glancing at Neptune. She was proud of his Ravenclaw tendencies, right?!

Tate seemed to notice how awesome he was, though.

All in all, a successful lesson so far.



"I don't think the Knights were Dark to begin with. I think they shared Slytherin's view about protecting wizardkind and stuff from persecution... but one or a few might have gone a little... extreme. Started the kind of activities which led to the whole Dark stuff and the Death Eater ideals... maybe," Jake tried. Now he WAS doing good he was more inclined to try harder to do better.

Nice.

Of course Miss Bott noticed Jake. She gave Mr. Morgan a private, proper little applause. Then added another tally mark to his Neptune Points score page.

She raised her hand.

And then she put it down.....

.... drama. Oddly familiar drama, though admittedly less relevant to class.

It stole her thoughts entirely. Neptune traced Thurisaz with her finger onto her desk.

Seeing that Tate was focused elsewhere, Charley slowly stood up and tip-toed over to where Jaina was sitting, a fairly short distance. She pushed Jaina's now-black hair-usually the most obvious sign of the girl's distress- behind her shoulders and gave her a small, sympathetic smile. Charley then started to gently rub her back, in an attempt to comfort Jaina.

After seeing Michael mouth to Jaina, Charley glared a bit at him before responding.
"At least in Divination we weren't talking about groups of murderers who were largely recognised, supported almost, by the Ministry, people who killed muggleborns and their families just for that fact," she mouthed back to him, nearly snickering, but trying desperately not to, since he was trying to help. Besides, she didn't need anyone else to dislike her. The Headmaster was bad enough, but fellow first-years and her best friends' housemates? She thought of a phrase Lauren used towards Charley often: social suicide.

Sabel listened to all the going about's of the class with half ears. If Tate had asked anything about muggle history, he probably would have been able to say something, even if it was just a fraction of a fact. But wizarding history eluded him.

And while it was interesting, he couldn't focus on it fully. Tate's words were still bouncing about in his head, about the Dark Arts being black and white so that the man behind the word could be grey. Sometimes, DADA needed to be combined with psychology.

Belle saw Jania crying. "This was an unfair topic to discuss about." she thought. She moved over in her seat and comfort her and gave her a smile smile. She passed her note in her robes saying "Come to the lake after class with me."

Luin listened to more of the discussion. She noticed a girl getting upset over the subject and wondered why, they were discussing dark magic and those who don't like muggleborns but she would rather talk about it and have it out there instead of people covering things up. It happens in this society and doesn't mean every witch and wizard feel the same way. She shook her head and then raised her hand to respond to the teacher's question, "From what we have seen of those who have become dark wizards, they have mostly had the same beliefs as Slytherin and the Knights. The fact that they hate muggles and muggleborns, but the fact is that the belief doesn't guarantee anyone to be a dark wizard. What guarantees it more is the actions of the person. As far as history can tell, Slytherin never became a dark wizard although he had that mindset. But on the other hand Voldemort, Grindelwald and others are considered dark wizards because of their actions."

Raven eyes blink, and blink, so far the discussion is unconventional, but this is a class, he got a choice, the choice of no choices,do not, talk to much, just listen, after all this is Raven's forte 'listening'. Just smile to the professor all leave all the thing to the talking people.

"There are extremists in any party," Tate shrugged. "But it's important to know what a group stands for and not to assume that what their fringe members believe stands in for everyone. That goes for many things in this life."

"Exactly, Ellie. The Knights were ensuring that Muggles weren't a threat to the magical community at large. Simple, isn't it? Funny how we've complicated it so over time."

"The Death Eaters grew out of a faction of the Knights of Walpurgis. Let's say... everyone in here likes ice cream. We have an Ice Cream Lovers club now. But some of you like sprinkles and some like chocolate sauce and a very very few of you like gravy on your ice cream. You start your own club, because the rest of us just can't agree to put gravy on our ice cream, although we all still agree that ice cream is great. Just because your little group likes gravy doesn't mean that we all like gravy or that we all think gravy is a good topping for ice cream. We can't assume that all Knights believed something because the small group of the Death Eaters did centuries later."

"We probably have an idea of their common beliefs, but you're right... we don't know why they all joined or what they all hoped to accomplish. I imagine some of them felt we could eventually live side by side with the Muggles, and some thought the Muggles had to go completely. But they could agree that magical society needed protecting."

"Maybe not 'against' Muggles, but certainly wary of them. Protective and secretive and occasionally paranoid," Tate hummed over that one. "But you're right about why we jump to the conclusion that all Knights were dark, or that Slytherin was up to Dark magic."

"I suspect there was a universal goal, protecting ALL magical people, but the best place to enact change is in your own back yard, right?"

"I'm sure you're right. Many different goals, and not all of them Dark. But it should probably be said that one doesn't have to be a Dark wizard to be up to no good. It's just that if they're a Dark wizard... they're DEFINITELY up to no good."

"Probably so... in their own backyard, they'd want to make sure the magical community was absolutely safe and absolutely distinct."

"Exactly where they come in," Tate mused. "I suspect if we thought about it, we'd realize that Muggleborns and Halfbloods have just as much reason to desire secrecy and protection as purebloods, just as much a reason to want to learn spells and to seek safety. But in the heat of the moment, when we fear for our lives... who can tell how we'll react?"

"Go," Tate waved at the door. If the boy wanted to forfeit class participation points, it was his right.

"No, not true," Tate was glad the girl had recognized the myth as just that... a supposition. "Some probably did pursue Darker and Darker magics. At one time, Grindelwald held the interest of some of the Knights, and later, Voldemort did. These wizards both pursued new avenues of magic and would have led their followers down dark dark paths."

"A good summation, lad," Tate agreed.

"Perhaps so," Tate agreed. "And also a good summation. I hope your classmates are taking good notes."

Tate was not amused. "No, child. In this class, we learn the past so we do not repeat it's mistakes and we look at our surroundings with clarity and discernment so that we can stay safe and alive. It isn't puppy dogs and rainbows, and if you find it too frightening, then you don't have to attend. But while you're here, you will stay in your seat and not hiss at your classmates like the Slytherin Basilisk everyone seems so keen to discuss."

He pointed toward her chair, indicating she needed to return to it. "And five points from Ravenclaw for the distraction."

"Must we end class in order to give each other hugs and sing Muggle campfire songs while holding hands? Do you need marshmallows for this party?" He glared at the girl, zapping the note from her hand with his wand and turning it into a pile of ashes.

"Five from Hufflepuff, and the next distraction or person leaving their seat will result in the end of the class period."

He was glad to return to the topic at hand. "Yes, you're correct. A Dark wizard isn't about belief systems, it is about actions. We know Grindelwald and Voldemort were both Dark. Can anyone explain how they link to the Knights?"