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RachieRu · 08-09-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lezleighd

#2
"Head Boy," she really wasn't sure if she was allowed to call him just Clifford and she had never talked to him before now, so formal would be okay...if not she'd play the firstie card, "SPEW has a policy to help house elves figure out what is best for themselves and how can they decide if freedom is best for them if they have never experienced it and have been brought up in a household that has taught them otherwise. Yes, it would be a shock to their system to have freedom, but just making "Fantabulous food" is not a reason to let the elves stay in places that are harmful to their health and well-being. Every creature deserves to have a choice of their freedom but many elves are kept away from the education or knowledge needed to know what freedom really is and to know how to voice their opinion or when, mainly in house elves' cases, it's safe to voice their opinion on freedom. My mom makes "fantabulous food" but that doesn't mean her choice of freedom should be taken away"

Oooh. Vanessa needed to speak again. Underlining something on her notes, so that she wouldn't forget to say it. Giving the class a small smile, she looked around before speaking.
"Satine...I picked up on something that you had said. About every creature deserves to have a choice in there freedom? And many house elves are kept away from education and knowledge?" Vanessa turned to look at the younger girl, still smiling. "I have to say that I do agree with you, and that every creature does deserve a choice of freedom. But what are we, humans, to decide whether a house elf should have freedom or not. How can we decide whether or not a house elf is happy with serving a family. Yes we might not like the way that some house elves are treated but we cannot decide whether they are happy or not. Also it is right that a house elves should be given rights, and an opinion about their freedom, but if we want to free all house elves, what would happen when a house elf comes up who doesn't want to be free, a house elf that is happy serving. What would happen then? Thats why I think, yes we should take into account a house elf's opinion, but we musn't think about what we want, for what we want might not be what the house elf wants." Vanessa nodded, as she took a deep breath, she wasn't used to all this talking. "In other words. We need to think about who we are doing this to please. To make the house elves live better, or to clear our conscious."

Quote:

Originally Posted by She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho!

"Oh yes," she added, turning to one of the house-elf-happy-the-way-things-are student, Vanessa. "You said something... ah, what was it... still have a roof to live under... yes, that if they were left to be, they would be "living out in the wild" was it?" She tilted her head. "I was wondering what would lead you to believe that. It is true that in a wizard-dominated magic world, it is almost impossible to live without human interference -- giants being a good exemption to quote. But what service do we really provide? With the house-elves' evident intelligence, skill with magic and gentle nature, wouldn't they be able to coexist with us existing within their own civilized culture?"

After she had paused, to catch her breath back, Vanessa turned to another student, who had commented on one of earlier points. "Yes. Diane. That is quite true." Vanessa nodded, smiling at the girl before speaking again. "But what I actually meant was what would happen if, for example all the hogwarts House Elves went a lived in the dark forest, an environment where they are not used to. Yes they are intelligent, and have skills with magic, but I'm quite certain, that just like us they would find it hard to cope in an environment like that. House elves, are obviously used to the environment that they live in, which may suggest, that the majority of house elves are happy in what they do. Surely if you put house elves in an environment where they were not used to wouldn't that just make them more unhappy?
I do believe thought that if house elves were put into there own culture that they would be able to thrive and be happy. But this does not say that the house elves are not happy with what they are already doing. Referring back to my other comment, maybe it would be wise to ask the house elves whether they were happy. This would then easily show us wizards the feelings of the house elves, and then we would be able to decide the best way to improve the lives of the house elves.

"But just one more general point which I would like to make is that in the past views on house elves may have been made without consulting the house elves. Obviously house elves, in the past belonged to rich wizarding families who probably thought that it was in there best interest to think and decide what there house elf would do. And also other witches and wizards with power most likely decided what the house elf species should be doing in the wizarding world. But they never thought to see what the house elves thought, and some individuals may still be doing that today. How can we deicde what is best for the house elves if we do not know how they feel. For all we know the house elves may enjoy serving, which means if we changed that, they may no longer be happy. If we in the wizarding world can understand the house elves feelings, whether they are happy or not, then we will probably be a lot closer to maybe changing house elf rights."

08-09-2009, 03:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
RachieRu DoM & DMLE Thestral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Wall Posts: 80,705 Hogwarts RPG Name: Narcissa Hensley Gryffindor Third Year x6 x4	House Elves are happy the way things are Vanessa the Snot Girl l Rachels Rule \| rock,tumble,&roll ❆ adorable coffee bean Quote: Originally Posted by Lezleighd #2 "Head Boy," she really wasn't sure if she was allowed to call him just Clifford and she had never talked to him before now, so formal would be okay...if not she'd play the firstie card, "SPEW has a policy to help house elves figure out what is best for themselves and how can they decide if freedom is best for them if they have never experienced it and have been brought up in a household that has taught them otherwise. Yes, it would be a shock to their system to have freedom, but just making "Fantabulous food" is not a reason to let the elves stay in places that are harmful to their health and well-being. Every creature deserves to have a choice of their freedom but many elves are kept away from the education or knowledge needed to know what freedom really is and to know how to voice their opinion or when, mainly in house elves' cases, it's safe to voice their opinion on freedom. My mom makes "fantabulous food" but that doesn't mean her choice of freedom should be taken away" Oooh. Vanessa needed to speak again. Underlining something on her notes, so that she wouldn't forget to say it. Giving the class a small smile, she looked around before speaking. "Satine...I picked up on something that you had said. About every creature deserves to have a choice in there freedom? And many house elves are kept away from education and knowledge?" Vanessa turned to look at the younger girl, still smiling. "I have to say that I do agree with you, and that every creature does deserve a choice of freedom. But what are we, humans, to decide whether a house elf should have freedom or not. How can we decide whether or not a house elf is happy with serving a family. Yes we might not like the way that some house elves are treated but we cannot decide whether they are happy or not. Also it is right that a house elves should be given rights, and an opinion about their freedom, but if we want to free all house elves, what would happen when a house elf comes up who doesn't want to be free, a house elf that is happy serving. What would happen then? Thats why I think, yes we should take into account a house elf's opinion, but we musn't think about what we want, for what we want might not be what the house elf wants." Vanessa nodded, as she took a deep breath, she wasn't used to all this talking. "In other words. We need to think about who we are doing this to please. To make the house elves live better, or to clear our conscious." Quote: Originally Posted by She-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Psycho! "Oh yes," she added, turning to one of the house-elf-happy-the-way-things-are student, Vanessa. "You said something... ah, what was it... still have a roof to live under... yes, that if they were left to be, they would be "living out in the wild" was it?" She tilted her head. "I was wondering what would lead you to believe that. It is true that in a wizard-dominated magic world, it is almost impossible to live without human interference -- giants being a good exemption to quote. But what service do we really provide? With the house-elves' evident intelligence, skill with magic and gentle nature, wouldn't they be able to coexist with us existing within their own civilized culture?" After she had paused, to catch her breath back, Vanessa turned to another student, who had commented on one of earlier points. "Yes. Diane. That is quite true." Vanessa nodded, smiling at the girl before speaking again. "But what I actually meant was what would happen if, for example all the hogwarts House Elves went a lived in the dark forest, an environment where they are not used to. Yes they are intelligent, and have skills with magic, but I'm quite certain, that just like us they would find it hard to cope in an environment like that. House elves, are obviously used to the environment that they live in, which may suggest, that the majority of house elves are happy in what they do. Surely if you put house elves in an environment where they were not used to wouldn't that just make them more unhappy? I do believe thought that if house elves were put into there own culture that they would be able to thrive and be happy. But this does not say that the house elves are not happy with what they are already doing. Referring back to my other comment, maybe it would be wise to ask the house elves whether they were happy. This would then easily show us wizards the feelings of the house elves, and then we would be able to decide the best way to improve the lives of the house elves. "But just one more general point which I would like to make is that in the past views on house elves may have been made without consulting the house elves. Obviously house elves, in the past belonged to rich wizarding families who probably thought that it was in there best interest to think and decide what there house elf would do. And also other witches and wizards with power most likely decided what the house elf species should be doing in the wizarding world. But they never thought to see what the house elves thought, and some individuals may still be doing that today. How can we deicde what is best for the house elves if we do not know how they feel. For all we know the house elves may enjoy serving, which means if we changed that, they may no longer be happy. If we in the wizarding world can understand the house elves feelings, whether they are happy or not, then we will probably be a lot closer to maybe changing house elf rights." __________________ It's the end of the show. Of the historemix. We switched up the flow. And we changed the prefix But we want to say. Before we drop the curtain. Nothing is for sure. Nothing is for certain Last edited by RachieRu; 08-09-2009 at 03:22 PM.