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PadfootAndTheWolf · 08-08-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaRaRachieee

Oooh. Public speaking. Vanessa was kind of good at this. As two of the students in the class spoke, Vannie looked down at her notes, making sure that she had written down everything that she wanted to. After they had finished speaking, she made her way to the front of the class, ready to speak.

"Hey Guys. I'm Vanessa Corbette, and I'm going to be speaking about how House Elves are happy with the way things are." She smiled at them. Okay this was a little daunting. She glanced down at her notes again, looking at the first point on the list. "I believe that most house elves are happy with what they are doing, the majority most likely. For example the hogwarts house elves have been here in the class for a large number for years. The house elves were placed here by Helga Hufflepuff, the founder of the hufflepuff house, and she arranged for the house elves to work in the kitchens of Hogwarts where they would be safe from being mistreated or abused. I think that in the time that Helga Hufflepuff was alive this would have been a very good contract for the house elves, as they would have a safe home, where they were able to work, without having the to live in fear."

Vannie took a breath, before carrying on. "Another point to back up this previous one is that the House elves are still here, many years after Helga Hufflepuff arranged for them to work here. Does that not show that the house elves are happy to work here, that they are being treated properly? Surely if they were not happy they may have spoken and told someone about it?" She nodded, folding up her paper of notes, and looking at the final one.

"Finally, from what I have read Albus Dumbledore, a previous headmaster of Hogwarts offered the house elves that worked in the kitchens of Hogwarts wages...which shows that someone did care about the well being of the house elves. I believe that there may be more people like Dumbledore in the world, who are willing to help the house elves.
Overall I believe that in someways the house elves, not just the ones at Hogwarts, may be happy with the way things are, and it could be dangerous if things changed. Just imagine what would happen to the Hogwarts House Elves if they left Hogwarts..."

Chris listened and nodded as his fellow Prefect talked about how the house elves enjoyed working at Hogwarts and he nodded. He stepped forward and waited until she was finished before he spoke. “Yes, that is more or less correct for most house elves. Hogwarts is a safe place for them to work and live thanks to Helga Hufflepuff, Albus Dumbledore and countless other great wizards and witches. But the problem with this is that not all house-elves work here, let alone a suitable, healthy environment. Some house-elves still live in squalor and as Anna pointed out,” he gestured to his fellow Gryffindor, “are too afraid to speak up. As magical beings House-Elves should have the right to speak up for change that is needed."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antarctica!

OOC: I apologise for the length. >.<

Kiri had been expecting it, but even though, she was a little surprised at how quickly someone had risen in opposition to the point of view she was representing. As her classmates talked, she took some hasty notes so she would have something to refer to when it was time for her own rebuttal.
Which was now. She stood up and walked slowly to the front of the class, trying to structure the arguments in her mind. When she passed Clifford, she dropped a small piece of parchment on his desk.
KiRi, it said simply, followed by a winking face, the R underlined several times.

She had delivered her opening statement successfully, so she felt a little more confident when she stepped up to the podium a second time.
"Just, um, a few things I'd like to address," she said, looking at her notes. There were only a few densely scribbled lines on the parchment. That was hardly enough! She felt the nervousness rush back - it made it difficult to think. She sought for an easy point to begin. Ah, yes.

"First, about the, er, option of letting the house-elves decide for themselves." She smiled self-consciously at the Ravenclaw who'd brought it up, feeling more nervous still. He was much older and smarter than she was, how could she try and argue with him!?
"I... think that, in most aspects, there's a lot of... common ground? But the reason we are saying it should not be left to the house-elves is because we are, in the end, living in a human society. It has been shaped by a long time to be the way it is. Although, of course, as several people have said, even if it the elv... the house-elves were given a choice, they wouldn't change anything."

Kiri shuffled her papers to gain a few moments' time to get her thoughts in order. "Now, about what, er..." she tried frantically to remember the Gryffindor boy's name, "Chris? Right? What you said..." Check notes. "I've read about Dobby, yes, but he's one out of how many house-elves? Compared to him, there are dozens, hundreds of other elves who do not want the situation to change. In fact, Dobby, at the time he was working in this school, um, alienated all the other elves because he wanted wages and holidays. They were angry with him and the students who tried to set them free. It insulted them! They refused to work in your common room. For people on our side, it's confusing how you can say it's for the best of the elves when they themselves become so upset by it.
"We made..." A small note on the parchment caught her eye. "Erm, sorry," she amended hastily, blushing, "something else about Dobby. He abandoned his masters. If he was right in doing so is probably a debate in itself, so I just want to say that when he did it, he punished himself. What he had done went against his identity as a house-elf, and you can see how much that troubled him. As I was going to say, we made the house-elves into what they are. Over a very long time. As such, they're our responsibility, and we probably know what's best for them. If a witch or wizard wants to pay their house-elf, they can do that, of course. But they should know they'll probably offend their elf very much."

Kiri picked up her papers. "Dobby is, I think, more of an example of what can happen if we do not treat the house-elves right. If we act that cruelly towards them that they have to do something that basically goes against their own being, like Dobby, then it's perhaps our own fault. But it doesn't mean we should force human ideas and choices on our elves. Thank you."

She sat down again. Her throat was very dry by now.

Chris waited and then heard the Kiri girl commenting on his first rebuttal. “Well the problem with your view on the situation is that just because the majority of Elves are ok with the way things are, does that make it ok for us to push away those that need our help? That isn’t fair. I mean think of it this way. A few students are failing in a class but the majority of the students are passing, so is it right for the teacher to do nothing and let those few fail? No.” he hoped his point was being made.

08-08-2009, 04:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
PadfootAndTheWolf formerly: DanialRadFAN01 Bicorn Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: On SS of course! Posts: 16,991 Hogwarts RPG Name: Kiera Burton x6	House elves who want change (post 2) Gaga Mafia Monster : MURPHY : Kelvin's SS!BFAM : Roro's Evil Twin : Ravlyndor : Gopher Quote: Originally Posted by RaRaRachieee Oooh. Public speaking. Vanessa was kind of good at this. As two of the students in the class spoke, Vannie looked down at her notes, making sure that she had written down everything that she wanted to. After they had finished speaking, she made her way to the front of the class, ready to speak. "Hey Guys. I'm Vanessa Corbette, and I'm going to be speaking about how House Elves are happy with the way things are." She smiled at them. Okay this was a little daunting. She glanced down at her notes again, looking at the first point on the list. "I believe that most house elves are happy with what they are doing, the majority most likely. For example the hogwarts house elves have been here in the class for a large number for years. The house elves were placed here by Helga Hufflepuff, the founder of the hufflepuff house, and she arranged for the house elves to work in the kitchens of Hogwarts where they would be safe from being mistreated or abused. I think that in the time that Helga Hufflepuff was alive this would have been a very good contract for the house elves, as they would have a safe home, where they were able to work, without having the to live in fear." Vannie took a breath, before carrying on. "Another point to back up this previous one is that the House elves are still here, many years after Helga Hufflepuff arranged for them to work here. Does that not show that the house elves are happy to work here, that they are being treated properly? Surely if they were not happy they may have spoken and told someone about it?" She nodded, folding up her paper of notes, and looking at the final one. "Finally, from what I have read Albus Dumbledore, a previous headmaster of Hogwarts offered the house elves that worked in the kitchens of Hogwarts wages...which shows that someone did care about the well being of the house elves. I believe that there may be more people like Dumbledore in the world, who are willing to help the house elves. Overall I believe that in someways the house elves, not just the ones at Hogwarts, may be happy with the way things are, and it could be dangerous if things changed. Just imagine what would happen to the Hogwarts House Elves if they left Hogwarts..." Chris listened and nodded as his fellow Prefect talked about how the house elves enjoyed working at Hogwarts and he nodded. He stepped forward and waited until she was finished before he spoke. “Yes, that is more or less correct for most house elves. Hogwarts is a safe place for them to work and live thanks to Helga Hufflepuff, Albus Dumbledore and countless other great wizards and witches. But the problem with this is that not all house-elves work here, let alone a suitable, healthy environment. Some house-elves still live in squalor and as Anna pointed out,” he gestured to his fellow Gryffindor, “are too afraid to speak up. As magical beings House-Elves should have the right to speak up for change that is needed." Quote: Originally Posted by Antarctica! OOC: I apologise for the length. >.< Kiri had been expecting it, but even though, she was a little surprised at how quickly someone had risen in opposition to the point of view she was representing. As her classmates talked, she took some hasty notes so she would have something to refer to when it was time for her own rebuttal. Which was now. She stood up and walked slowly to the front of the class, trying to structure the arguments in her mind. When she passed Clifford, she dropped a small piece of parchment on his desk. KiRi, it said simply, followed by a winking face, the R underlined several times. She had delivered her opening statement successfully, so she felt a little more confident when she stepped up to the podium a second time. "Just, um, a few things I'd like to address," she said, looking at her notes. There were only a few densely scribbled lines on the parchment. That was hardly enough! She felt the nervousness rush back - it made it difficult to think. She sought for an easy point to begin. Ah, yes. "First, about the, er, option of letting the house-elves decide for themselves." She smiled self-consciously at the Ravenclaw who'd brought it up, feeling more nervous still. He was much older and smarter than she was, how could she try and argue with him!? "I... think that, in most aspects, there's a lot of... common ground? But the reason we are saying it should not be left to the house-elves is because we are, in the end, living in a human society. It has been shaped by a long time to be the way it is. Although, of course, as several people have said, even if it the elv... the house-elves were given a choice, they wouldn't change anything." Kiri shuffled her papers to gain a few moments' time to get her thoughts in order. "Now, about what, er..." she tried frantically to remember the Gryffindor boy's name, "Chris? Right? What you said..." Check notes. "I've read about Dobby, yes, but he's one out of how many house-elves? Compared to him, there are dozens, hundreds of other elves who do not want the situation to change. In fact, Dobby, at the time he was working in this school, um, alienated all the other elves because he wanted wages and holidays. They were angry with him and the students who tried to set them free. It insulted them! They refused to work in your common room. For people on our side, it's confusing how you can say it's for the best of the elves when they themselves become so upset by it. "We made..." A small note on the parchment caught her eye. "Erm, sorry," she amended hastily, blushing, "something else about Dobby. He abandoned his masters. If he was right in doing so is probably a debate in itself, so I just want to say that when he did it, he punished himself. What he had done went against his identity as a house-elf, and you can see how much that troubled him. As I was going to say, we made the house-elves into what they are. Over a very long time. As such, they're our responsibility, and we probably know what's best for them. If a witch or wizard wants to pay their house-elf, they can do that, of course. But they should know they'll probably offend their elf very much." Kiri picked up her papers. "Dobby is, I think, more of an example of what can happen if we do not treat the house-elves right. If we act that cruelly towards them that they have to do something that basically goes against their own being, like Dobby, then it's perhaps our own fault. But it doesn't mean we should force human ideas and choices on our elves. Thank you." She sat down again. Her throat was very dry by now. Chris waited and then heard the Kiri girl commenting on his first rebuttal. “Well the problem with your view on the situation is that just because the majority of Elves are ok with the way things are, does that make it ok for us to push away those that need our help? That isn’t fair. I mean think of it this way. A few students are failing in a class but the majority of the students are passing, so is it right for the teacher to do nothing and let those few fail? No.” he hoped his point was being made.