| Moke
Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Amongst Magic
Posts: 8,616
Hogwarts RPG Name:
Zara Gwendolyn Monroe
Sixth Year
  x11
|  I'm expending the lesson for at least 24 hours....sorry for the delay in reopening Atypical Ravenclaw Bookworm // Hair Flipper Pro / / the edgy starbuckian // Hot Messie
SPOILER!!: Previous Q & A Quote:
Originally Posted by MissFeenella  "Well remembering Wizards and Witches arent allowed to use magic whenever a muggle is around i guess the same consequences would apply for a creature.",the blonde started,"but then again can you really allocate the same charge to creatures than to human beings?"
Not all of the creatures had small brains but some of them had and it depened on what creature it was."I would say if a centaur caused the breach the same consequences should happen",she stated,"but not if the reason was a creature with low-ish intellegence." “Again it would all depend on the situation. Things aren’t completely black and white, there is a lot of grey space to take into account.” Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezleighd Text Cut: Catching Up
Satine thought about the question and then listened to the others' answers. What more could she say they did? She raised her hand, "Professor, The Confederation was originally called the International Federation of Warlocks and they are like a governing body for wizards that cross all international lines making sure that we have to follow some pretty important rules..."
Satine shot her hand in the air, "The Statute helps to insure that our sporting events, like Quidditch, aren't discovered by the Muggle world." she answered with a little smile imagining how crazy the Muggles would think the sport would be. They'd prolly decide it was too dangerous for kids to play.
Satine once again raised her hand up in the air, "Professor, many muggles are afraid of change, as are some wizards, and it could cause absolute chaos if the Statue was broken. I mean the Salem Witch Trials, however not really dealing with real witches, shows the extent of the overreaction and fear that could spread."
”Very good point! We aren’t all that different from muggles and certain preconceived notices about each other can lead to terrible things. Salem is an excellent example of just what fear and overreacting can being.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbreeze "For our own protection, mostly." Eino said with his hand raised. "The persecution of witches and wizards grew at an exceedingly high rate in the seventh century in Europe. Many muggles participated in an activity called witch-hunting, which is self-explanatory, and resulted in the burning of many wizards and witches. However, muggles were, and still are, unable to distinguish wizards and witches from muggles, so this witch-hunt resulted in the death of many muggles who were under suspicion. So, the Statute also protects muggles." Even thought it was mostly for the safety of the wizarding world. It's really a win-win outcome for both groups. ”Yes that is very true. The Statute is designed to protect us both. Muugles were innocently accused of being witches and then punished. Fear of something unknown can lead people to do drastic things. Witches and wizards were being hunted for just being magicial and there were cases where even children were being forced to perform for muggles far before these huntings occurred for the amusement of muggles. It was time for something to happen to protect everyone, wouldn’t you say?”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoerawrr "The statute?" Jake repeated, looking to the front of the class at the treeeeeeeeeeats before answering.
He knew this.
"My classmates have said most of the reasons, I think. I'd just like the point out that because of the witch-burning and stuff, they used a flame-freezing charm... but one of the reasons for the statute COULD have been that younger wizards and witches are unable to do such magic, so their persecution in the witch burning era was much greater if they used accidental magic. Wizarding children were also persecuted for being different... Especially in times back then, people didn't like other people being different. It scared them, so children would bully other children, and I'm sure adults would bully children as well." Jake lowered his hand and STAAAAAAAAAAARED at the treats again. "Of course, that's only one reason and probably my imagination anyway." ”This is just what I was looking for. Children were being prosecuted for things they couldn’t control. How unfair is that? You are young and you are just starting to know you are special and can do these thing, but you can’t control it and you are being treated like so. Yes, I would say it was time for someone to step in and do something about things.”
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Originally Posted by nogoodforyou Looking around, Helena heard Jake talk. "I always thought that they used a charm or something to protect themselves from the fire, scream a little bit, pretend they're dead and then... well, escape." Okay, maybe she should have kept that idea for herself. "No one did that?" ”There are cases that witches and wizards did do just that.”
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Originally Posted by Harry174 Simon looked at the Professor and sighed, he would go see her after class, now where did he put his History of Magic book, he couldn't remember, he knew it was in his bag somewhere, well he'll get it after answering this question.
Simon smiled as he decided he would answer this question. "Professor maybe because people where playing Quidditch where they could be seen by muggles and so the muggles got scared and started killing all the magical people." ”That could be a reason, but I’m not sure if we would be able to find any historical proof of that. Fear can cause people to do drastic things though.”
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Originally Posted by RachieRu "I don't think your thinking was that wrong..." Finlay mused, as he turned to look at Helena. "But I think some wizards probably weren't able to do a charm to stop the fire killing them, because they probably wouldn't have been experienced enough." That kind of made sense right? It did in his head, he was sure of it. "So like as Jake was saying about wizarding children, they probably wouldn't know how to do a charm to protect themselves." Which was very said. "Hence why the statue was so important in those days." ”Very good point. At the time, the statute was set it looked out for the well-bring of the children, Someone had to since there wasn’t much anyone was really doing at the time.”
SPOILER!!: More talk about fire and potions Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna_Midnight Nerida nodded at all 3 comments, she had thought the same as Helena...Nerida said Well, couldnt there be like a potion to prevent them from being burned? Or did the Wizarding World just allow their kind to be burned and killed?She hoped they didnt that would be wrong of them! Nerida looked at the boy a couple seats away and nodded that sounded good...Were all 4 of them right?She didnt know... Quote:
Originally Posted by nogoodforyou Helena looked around as a couple of Ravenclaws talked, then turned her head to face the girl. "It would've been a good idea, the potion, I mean. But for now... I don't think we need that anymore." Hopefully. "Those medieval times are gone." Again, hopefully. Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoerawrr "Well yeah... Wendelin the Weird did that loads. Like... 47 times or something?" Jake shrugged. He couldn't remember; that wasn't his specialised era. "But yeah, what Finlay said is what I'm getting at. And, if you think about it, around that time... not every wizarding child was being educated. I think it was after Hogwarts was founded, but people were still bound to be wary."
Jake cleared his throat. He did speak in a restricted code a lot of the time. "Basically... children still didn't know magic at least before the age of eleven. Many couldn't save themselves... and society puts a lot of emphasis on the protection of children, albeit admittedly more in this day and age, so it became important.
"Also, some potions take years to be discovered. There's no record of such a potion in our books. It only says about the flame-freezing charm. And I know it sounds wrong not to help their kind... but I mean, in a situation with so many magic-haters... it would have been near impossible to use magic. Plus, I doubt they'd be able to go forward and give them a potion without being accused of helping a witch or BEING a witch... and bad stuff happened. I don't know. I may be old, but I wasn't there."
The young man looked at the Ravenclaw prefect and gave him a grateful smile in any case.
Sylvie smiled and stood back, allowing the class to discuss the topic. She did like to see them all thinking about the topic and talking things out like so. Some many good points were being made and that pleased her a lot.
[b]”Jake brings up good points. I’m a lot older than you as well and I wasn’t there either. All we have is what is written about the events. In the time of all this, magic was frowned upon. Not because it was wrong, because there is nothing wrong with having magic or being the way we are. It was just frowned on because people didn’t understand it. Again it’s just goes back to the fear some have for what they don’t understand. It’s a shame really, that fear can overpower people and leads to such terrible things.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezleighd She raised her hand, "Professor, my dad is a muggle. And we always buy the Muggle tabloids because every once and a while you can find an animal or something very magical that has leaked it's way onto that magazine. But must muggles don't believe the magazines and think they just make things up..." she said with a little shoulder shrug...ironic... ”I will admit, I have pick up one of those from time to time as well. Muggles will try to explain elements of our world with some of the most outlandish things, but think if the tables were changed. If there was an element of their world that leaked into ours, how would we react?”
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Originally Posted by hpluvr037 "You're right, Jake. I mean, think of the Wolfsbane Potion. That was only discovered about a century ago, but now we act as if it's always been around. So it's completely possible that such a potion hadn't been discovered yet. But you have a point about administering the potion. You couldn't possibly give it to the child without people noticing. However, couldn't you just give it to them right before they were led away? I don't know. If you can use magic with some capability, then you can probably also work things so that you aren't discovered. So in that regard, the Statute shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. Maybe people just weren't careful enough." ”There could be a number of what if’s involved here. We can sit here and say they could have done this and they could have done that, but we are just observers of everything now. But you have to keep in mind, that most of those persecuted in these hunts were not really witches at all. Most were probably innocent and fear of them was the reason they were lead to the stake. In the case of the children, let’s think about the time before the hunts. I want to focus on how they were being forced by their peers to ‘preform’ for them.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbreeze "Even if there was a potion or a charm that protected wizards and witches from fire..." Eino joined the group discussing the fire protecting potion charm thing. "That's not the point. They wanted us dead." He said with much emphasis on the word dead. "If fire hadn't worked, they would have tried something else. The point is they wanted us gone, and now, to them, we are. The best thing we could have done was to respect their concerns, their fear for something they couldn't understand, and leave them at peace. That is not to say that we can't help them, we just have to do it secretly." That was the basis for his little club, after all. He strongly believed that helping muggles with (or without) magic should be encouraged, so long as it was done secretly. "The Statute of Secrecy requires us to hide from muggles, not disregard them." ”Fear again lead them to want no part with us. The fear of a few lead to the deaths of many people, most innocent. It’s unfair and it’s troubling to have to read about just how unjust such events are, but it’s a chance to learn from them. Muggles feared us and in their fear they thought it was the answer to try to rid their world of us. I hate to think we have to hide from them, that we are required to hide, but it’s for our safetly. The world has changed from the times of outright witch hunting, but people still fear change and things they don’t understand or want to understand.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna_Midnight Nerida raised her hand and said My mum has muggle friends and they say thats its ridiculas that The Tv and the Magizines have to make something up just to get ratings...So muggles dont really believe it unless they see it with their own eyes..Just like Satine said.. [b]”Seeing is believing for many people. I have many muggle-born friends that have never seen magic until coming to Hogwarts, but once they saw it; they knew it was real and it was part of them. Magic is who we are, but it’s just a part that scares some people.”
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Originally Posted by Anna Banana Clause seventy-three? Hmm, right. Whatever that was. Despite being lost in the discussion, Sierra just nodded a few times. Maybe the professor would think she was just getting all this down pat and that she was just plain awesome at History of Magic. Or not. After all, apparently they were meant to be discussing more matters on the topic, but Sierra just loathed class discussions like this one. It was only because she was just a first year and very easily got lost in the discussions taking place amongst the older students.
...at least she hadn't gotten the type of reply that Simon kid had, though. Read the text? See the professor after the lesson? Bwah haha! That couldn't be good. Simon, though, was at least participating in the discussion. Sierra really needed to come up with something else to say.
Her attention quickly diverted to Satine Farris, who'd brought up something about muggle tabloids. "Oh, I've seen one of those before! It was quite hilarious, mind you--the Loch Ness Monster, Yeti, an alien from Mars, and a girl with four arms shared the front cover," she announced. She had no idea what had been going on with the alien and four-armed girl, but she did know that the first two had been magical creatures accidentally seen by muggle eyes. "Apparently, the muggles had convinced themselves the Yeti was just an enormous, angry polar bear." Letting out a small giggles, Sylvie nodded. ”You know I’m sure the International Task Force had a field day with that one. Unknown things that no one can think of a logical explanation for or shall I say an explanation that they see as logical, they will think of something to justify it. The yeti for example is one of those cases. .”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoerawrr Jake smiled at the younger Hufflepuff. He appreciated that. "I'm pretty sure that the one accused wouldn't be left on their own long enough to get to them."
On the subject of the statute, Jake shrugged, and voice his opinion VERY carefully. "The statute was necessary... not only were kids being persecuted for being different, muggles would bug wizards and witches and I think there was a major thing with the King and Queen of England or something which made it necessary. There were so many reasons. Even now... people are so intolerant to different 'kinds' of people."
That much was obvious.
And PHEW. Jake had managed to talk without making his own opinion on the matter obvious.
"I think you're forgetting the fact that the people who could, did use the flame-freezing charm. And since Wendelin the Weird did it so many times, and we know from history that the muggles carried on witch-burning... it worked. Using a charm and then pretending to burn and then disguising themselves or leaving town," Jake explained, only really wanting to point out that little fact. He... more or less agreed with the rest of what he was saying. "Point is, not everyone could use that. People did die, kids and adults alike; not everyone could save themselves."
This... was turning into a morbid, and slightly confusing, discussion... Probably Jake's fault. He looked up at Professor Welton. They were gonna start going round in circles. HALP, PROFESSAHHHHH! ”That is very true. I think we need to remember just why the Statute was made and why it was needed at the time. Things could just keep going on the way there were going and as Jake mentioned there was an attempt to ask for help from the King and Queen of England at the time. There needed to be something done and matters were taken into the hands of the Confederation. Think of it as we needed to protect ourselves, seeing that no one else was going to protect us. As primal as it may sound, to survive we must do what is needed. Again, I hate to think we are hiding. I know I hate the thought, but we do what we do to keep ourselves safe. It was be pure chaos if things were allowed to continue as they were, don’t you think?”
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Originally Posted by Starbreeze "That fact that change my point; I am talking about the method, not the means. Faking deaths, having to disguise ourselves, changing and masking our identities, leaving towns, leaving homes, etc. How is that any different than what we are doing now?" Actually, that sounded a lot worst than what they were doing now. Eino didn't want to fake die, move out of his home, change his identity, rise and repeat Merlin knows how many times. "In the end, wizards still couldn't openly live with muggles, so what's the point in having to go through all that if we can just live how we do now?" Not to mention that before there was the risk of some people dying, including Muggles. That is a very good point. Compared to now, what was going on back then was fair more hostile. Yes, even today we don’t completely live in a world where we can openly live as we want, but there is less risk that innocents will be harmed.”
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Originally Posted by Michael White "Ms when did the split really happen loads of our spells are latin based ,and muggles know of the spinx cuz they got a huge one in Egypt and not to speak of all the norse myths things like that have been passed down in stories for 1000's of years and every 100yr or so someone digs up a new historical document showing a knight getting munched on by a Dragon" ”I would like to say that when the Statute was established, but even with it in effect it took time for the split to become complete. I dear say I don’t think it’s complete now. With relation to the spells, Latin is a language for all and even with the split; our spells will always be based on it. Latin was there long before any of us and I dear think that it will be around no matter what. With regard to all the other things, elements of our world will always turn up. There is no way for every sign of our existent to be erased. Most of these things are thought to be part of legends and what not. Not everyone believes them.”
SPOILER!!: Are we really prisoners? Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpinkpixie Kurumi turned her attention to the discussion Eino was having with Jake. Eino did bring up a very valid point. Where they really all that much better off now? Sure, there were not any non-magical people chasing them with pitchforks and torches now, but they still did not have freedom. “Doesn’t anyone else feel like we are prisoners?” Kurumi asked the class at large really more thinking aloud than anything else. “I mean, I am not saying that wizardingkind should be above non-magical people, but why do we have to suffer for being different? Historically, we know that there was much persecution among non-magicals based on race…isn’t this almost the same thing? When they were forced to recognize those difference and live among each other, sure, there were a lot of riots and fights, but things did get better.”
She paused for a moment to collect herself.
“People have been saying lately that in a perfect world we could coincide. But, the reality is, there will never be a perfect world. Do we really have to hide forever?” Quote:
Originally Posted by nogoodforyou Hearing what Kurumi just said, Helena turned around again. "About the prisoners... thing, you have a point here. I mean... we always have to hide our magical abilities. But maybe it's for the best. Some muggles could be so curious," even I am, "and they just wouldn't let it go until they had magical abilities for themselves. I mean... never." She stopped for a few seconds to breathe. "My point is, I think it's better this way, to hide ourselves. Or just... our special part." Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbreeze Prisoners? That seemed a little... dark, but it was right on. Plus, a lot of things wizards did was for the benefit of muggles, too. In fact, wizards didn't have to do all of this; They could have just said "to Hades with it" and response to muggles with the same treatment. Not to mention that their incapacity to try to understand magic wasn't justification to kill those who use it. Eino abhorred cars, trains, airplanes, buses, and a lot of other muggle technology, but he didn't go around killing muggles who operated them. YES THERE WILL BE A PERFECT WORLD WHEN ALL POGREBINS ARE CAPTURED! 
"But if we expose ourselves... It's just so unexpected and is it worth it? What do we have gain? What can we do for muggles openly that we can't secretly?"
Eino nodded in agreement. He had never thought of the possibility of muggles wanting to learn magic. Was that even possible? Maybe that would be yet another problem... There just so many complications with the idea of exposure that Eino's head began to ache. Nevertheless, he agreed that they should remain hidden. Quote:
Originally Posted by fanficfanatict Selina listened to Kurumi's point with great interest. She did have something in her comment, but it was too idealistic her approach to this issue. Sometimes the world was not perfect as she had wanted it to be; Selina even wanted the world to be harmonious, but reality did not warrant it.
"Kurumi, the point isn't that we are somewhat, in your opinion, prisoners. The problem lies in what you said about riots and such. Yes, things will get better. But at what cost? I mean you have to weigh the fact that things getting better could be the extinction of the Wizarding World. In theory we would no longer have riots. People are understanding Kurumi, but if history has shown anything you only need one lunatic to kill thousands.
"I want as much as the next person for the Magical World to be out in the open. The problem is there is so much danger in it. I would like to say that the world could bve harmous, but that is niave. We would sacrifice thousands.
"So rushing into this decision is not a good thing. The two worlds would need to slowly introduce one another to the concept. Even then we all know people will die. Nothing can stop that. When people are different from what is concieved as normal people react poorly. And I am not just commenting on muggles. Wizards are guilty of prejudice as well. Something bad will happen. This debate is irrelevant to now because it could only really occur if the government was behind it. Even then... it would be a blood bath." Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpinkpixie
Kurumi listened to Helena, Eino, and Selina as they responded to her previous statements. Kurumi wasn’t even sure exactly where she stood on the issue logically. She knew precisely where she stood emotionally though and that was on the side of wizardingkind being out in the open. To her, it was more than just a matter of being allowed to perform magic in front of non-magical people. For her, it meant never having to wear brown colored contacts again, never having to turn in her wand when she returned home for the summer, it meant her freedom to be herself in her own home. Right now, she felt like she was being denied the ability to be herself. That is why she liked being at Hogwarts so much, she never had to wear brown contacts to hide her violet eyes and she didn’t have to worry about people judging her for being different.
She shivered a bit at the word.
“I am not saying that we all go out tomorrow with our wands held up in the air and performing levitation charms on everything we see just to show that we really exist,” Kurumi said more towards Selina than anyone else. “We have been discussing how witches and wizards have failed to keep out world a total secret from the non-magical world. It is a part of wizarding law that the British Prime Minister, all Prime Ministers and Presidents for that matter, know of our existence…so we know that there is at least one person of authority that will not condemn us. That’s better than nothing, isn’t it? Historically, some minorities didn’t even have that!”
Hearing such a discussing going on before her, surprised her slightly. She was happy to have gotten this kind of reaction from the class, but maybe things were getting a bit intense at the moment. Clearing her throat to get the attention of the class, she started to walk up and down the aisles.
”You all are bring up great points. Before Selina mentioned about judging a whole race by some people and touched on what would happen if the Statute was possible repealed. Helena and Mia touched on what if muggles figured out just what was going on. What if after all this time, they figured out just what was around them, that we have been living amongst them and just hiding our magic from them. I want to know your thoughts on it and I would like for you to work in groups. I’ll give you time in class to form your groups and work on this.”
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