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As you walk into the classroom, you notice that everything is exactly where it should be. The desks are in their perfect rows, the large one belonging to Professor Magnus is situated at the back of the room, covered still in it's usual piles of papers. The blackboard is off to the side and has the following written on it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Board
Class discussion 1
Five Principal Exceptions to Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration:
Life
Love
Food
Money
Information
Of course he would change the exceptions. João respected the other four that defined a human and affected their lives. What he didn't get was the food issue. Raising his hand, he said "I would only change the food exception. It's very horrible and shameful in this era that hundreds of millions still struggle with hunger." It was a disgrace.
Would Hannah do all of these things if she could? Ummm heck yeah. She wasn't going to lie and she dang sure wasn't ashamed to admit it. She could rule the world with that kinda power. "Professor if I could I would. Could you imagine what kind of power you would have? I think it would be awesome." she said with a raised hand. I mean sure that would mean that the others would be capable of the same kind of power and that could be bad and Hannah wouldn't want other people making her love them, but that wouldn't happen because she would just make sure that she was the most powerful ever. Duh!
Elliot narrowed her eyebrows, something she did whenever she was thinking particularly hard. Hmm. Money equals power and prestige...and of course, Elliot wanted power. It was in her very blood. Her father wouldn't want those exceptions to transfiguration...but would she? She imagined herself being able to conjure all the money she wanted...who cares about love? Money is power.
She turned to glare at Hannah, but eventually a smirk broke out on her face. Looks like Hannah was having the same thoughts. But then that would mean everyone would be rich and powerful. And equal. People weren't made to be equal...
"While I do desire power, and power for my family, I do not think these exceptions should ever be bypassed. They should always exist. Money, which usually leads to power, should be earned. If everyone could become rich, then there would be no power, for everyone would be equal," she directed this at Hannah, her smirk growing haughtier by the minute. Hmm. What would her friend have to say to this, eh? Elliot chuckled to herself.
__________________
"You can justify anything if you do it poetically enough."
Roman Gellar ● 1st Year ● Slytherin
Zombie Apocalypse Team Leader ★ ★ in a crown of pepperoni and artisan cheese
SPOILER!!: Professor Issy
Isabelle nodded along to all the replies she got to her question. The kids were all making very good points, and she was glad that they had grasped the reasons why. But she decided to address each subject in turn.
"Love, exactly. You are all quite correct. It's an emotion that we all feel in a different way. True love is not something that can be created, or conjured, or forced upon another person. You can imitate certain aspects with potions, as you've mentioned, but the deep emotional aspects of love are an individual thing. Not something that can be universally reproduced."
---
Ahh, yes. Morals. That was the main thing with money, or in fact any precious metal, as the young boy said. What was his name? Smart student.
"You all make a very good point. Being able to conjure, or produce money using magic would indeed mean that people would have an abundance of it to buy things with. But if no one needs to work for it, then there is a very strong chance there will be no one to sell or make the things people want to buy." If that made sense. So morals and common sense played a big part in that. "Of course you can conjure things, but as we know they don't last."
"And you, my dear," Issy said, pointing at the young dark-haired boy who had made sense with his theory. "Are quite right as well. Metals are very often made using various things and that is difficult to replicate with magic."
--- Sir?
Isabelle gave the boy a 'do-I-look-like-a-man' look, before launching into her repsonse.
"Exactly. Food is made using various ingredients. As you all said, food that is conjured is not real food. It will disappear and certainly will not taste the same. You cannot produce it out of thin air. Multiply, yes. Summon, yes. Even enlarge." But if you want something to taste nice, make it in a mixing bowl.
---
Information. Another thing that you couldn't physically hold in your hand, not in a real sense. Books with it in you could, but the kids were right.
"Information is such a wide ranging thing, covering so many different topics, that being able to use magic to produce it all is nigh on impossible. The majority, not all, of what we know - the information in our heads - is learnt and based on facts. And if it was so easy to just conjure all that up, then...I wouldn't have a job." Isabelle chuckled, and gave the students a smile. Although they probably wished sometimes that they could do it, and not have to go to school.
---
Life. The most complicated of all. And their reasoning was pretty much spot on. Nodding as each of the kids spoke their views, Isabelle cleared her throat to reply as sensitively as she could. After all, people had differing views on death and what happened after it.
"Life is so much more than just existing in a physical sense. A body can be reanimated to appear like it's alive, as the three of you have discussed," Issy said, gesturing to Alyssa, Minerva and West. "But it's not real. What makes a person who they are is what is in their mind and their hearts, and that is not something that can be produced via a spell or any kind of magic. Their spirit leaves, as the ghosts are an example of. You cannot get that back, however much you try."
Of course there were slight exceptions to the exception, as Vickers mentioned. "We can conjure some form of life, of course, as Mister Vanderbilt said. But that doesn't last, and is merely a spell making something appear to be alive."
"Very good, Kurumi, yes. Creating something from nothing, conjuring it for example, is a very difficult thing to do. And in the case of most of these exceptions, currently impossible and even morally wrong. But those are good examples you gave - The Philosopher's Stone is incredibly powerful, but even that can only transform metals, or extend life. It cannot help to create it."
Issy gave the prefect a grin before moving on to one point that she thought was exceptionally good....
Isabelle walked over to Aspen and directed her gaze on the girl. A smile broke out across her lips and she nodded her head for what felt like the umpteenth time that morning. "You make an interesting point, Miss Odessa. Are they exceptions because we can't currently do them? Or would, should, they continue to be so even if we could?"
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
OOC: There is no right or wrong answer to this, purely what sort of opinion your character has on the subject. Discuss it among yourselves, and ask questions of Isabelle and each other if you wish. But again, PLEASE BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.
Dylan listened carefully to what the pretty Professor had to offer on the subject and frowned.
Yes, he supposed it was morally corrupt to even consider attempting to cut corners and take the easy routes...but he wasn't so convinced. There were some things that if they were able to make an abundance of, it couldn't have been that bad. Of course, he was thinking about food.
*some more hand-raising happenin'* "You know, I think in some scenarios, being able to transfigure food wouldn't be that morally corrupt...and I do think that if given the chance, I'd break that one law." Musing his hair a bit, he continued. "I just keep thinking about all the people that are starving across the planet...and are dying from doing so. If there were a way to help them...and children mostly, who were simply going without, I think I'd feel obligated to."
Merlin, that might have made him sound so Hufflepuffish...but whatever. It wasn't cool for people who have no control over certain situations to suffer. It wasn't right...And anther thing, "I know that might be considered "Natural Selection" and ways of weeding the population down...and that the food industry would plummet...but it seriously isn't cool how people lose their lives because they aren't eating."
If she could would she? Jezzabelle stared at nothing in particular and became a little distant as her mind raced. If they could do those things would she let them be done? It was her parents right to divorce and her grandfathers right to pass away but she was selfish enough to think that if it could be done she would do it.
"I don't believe in taking away someone's free will," she started out slowly, "it wouldn't be fair to make someone love you when they have every right to love whomever they'd like. It's also a persons right to pass on and move off from this world and I could never do that to someone I loved but..." Yes, there was a but. A big but, "I would do it if it was possible though. I'd cause my parents to love each other again and I would bring my grandfather back even though I'd be taking away their free will to do as they please. I'd do it without a second thought and regret my decisions later."
Did that mean she was a bad person for wanting to have the chance to be happy? Was she wrong for wanting these things? To have her family restored back to how it used to be? She didn't really think so. It's not like she could anyway. Those were the rules and no one is above them. Would anyone agree with her though? If they had lost someone they loved dearly, would they want to bring them back?
__________________
She Can't Help Herself. Her Mind Won't Slow Down. Watch Out! There's A NEW Ravenclaw In Town.
Nigel thought about what it would ne like without the exceptions and was shocked by the things going through his head if the all these were possible it would be CHAOS.
He thought it would be chaos. "Professor it would be chaos, why would you need a cook or go to restaurants if you can conjure up food at a thought. And making money magical appear does sound nice but if every witch and wizard could do it there would not be nothing left to buy since it would probably already be bought. No. It would just be wrong"
Last edited by oh its Erik ok; 05-19-2012 at 04:41 PM.
♣ Heejin here | Did somebody say coffee & cakes? | cat lover ♣
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithRodneyMckay
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
[/COLOR]
If there would be such privileges to these when Transfiguration that would be the most awesome day ever then. Just think of the things people can do when there are no exceptions to any law when it comes to transfiguration of certain things.
The question though: Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?
Jonathan thought about this one time during the time he studied for his OWLs. And just like everyone else, Jonathan shot his hand up to answer "I think I have to agree with most people about food." he said nodding. It's true, "food is such an essential thing for survival. I want it to be allowed" Jonathan was a big eater. Food and eating it is very important to him. Well, not that everything else was not, actually the 5 of them are as equally important.
However, Jonathan thought about it in the most logical way. Like he said life is such a huge thing and very impossible to transfigure on a daily basis. Even Lord Voldemort or Dumbledore can't bring anyone to life with their magic. Love is a free emotion and anyone can feel it. People are not allowed to transfigure that. it's utterly not right. Information.... as tempting as that is but still, one should at least know all the facts to be able to transfigure them in a way, right? And of course money. Money is the root of all evil, and the wizarding community would never tolerate such things.
You didn't quote my answer, Prof. -makes sad face-
That is a good question. It is something Chelle thought about quite frequently, having lost her father at the age of two.
"Well, honestly, it does get a little tempting sometimes to fake real life- to bring someone who died back to life," she said. It would've been nice to have her dad around. Even though she never got to know him, she was facing the consequences of his death. Maybe if he were still alive, her mother would've been more... alive. "But I guess there's something called a circle of life, and one has to die eventually. With money-- well, not everyone can be that fortunate. The idea is to make the best of life as you know it. As for love, I'd never fake true love. It's something that can only be felt. It is, according to me, the most powerful thing. It has the power to save lives as well as to destroy them. Something like this can't, and shouldn't, be faked."
Isabelle walked over to Aspen and directed her gaze on the girl. A smile broke out across her lips and she nodded her head for what felt like the umpteenth time that morning. "You make an interesting point, Miss Odessa. Are they exceptions because we can't currently do them? Or would, should, they continue to be so even if we could?"
Aspen was a little wary when the Professor approached her. Suspicious even. She shrugged in response, not wanting all that one-on-one attention in front of the whole class. After class, sure, or office hours, but not like this. Aspen waited until other people started answering before slipping in her reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithRodneyMckay
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
...mostly she waited for West to answer. He ALWAYS had an answer and much to Aspen's delight, and pride, he almost always checked her way before or after. She gave him an encouraging little nod, as always.
"I still think they're exceptions because of our inabilities. But, even if we did learn how to create those things listed in Gamp's Law, they'd still be exceptions. The government would certainly make their own laws to keep everything in check, particularly if you consider the Statute of Secrecy. We can't very well have all the riches, love, and food in the world and not go unnoticed." So that answered the Professor's first question, and Aspen paused, mouth set and head tilted while she puzzled out the morals of it. Hmm.
"In a way, do you think it's sort of like the Unforgivables? That some would see being able to conjure up money as bad, but if you knew all the circumstances, maybe it wouldn't be that bad after all? What if I just conjured up enough money to buy robes? Or a house? What if... love was conjured up for really, really sad people that couldn't find it on their own? Is it really so bad to conjure up happiness? The same could be said for the unforgiveables, when they're being used as protection, or for some other bettering of the world."
Sort of. Or at least that was Aspen's initial thoughts.
__________________
Last edited by Mad Eye Touz; 05-19-2012 at 03:15 PM.
Reason: ...i forgot words.
Raspberry Jam | #ChocolateFrogFamous | Ultimate Fangirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithRodneyMckay
"Exactly. Food is made using various ingredients. As you all said, food that is conjured is not real food. It will disappear and certainly will not taste the same. You cannot produce it out of thin air. Multiply, yes. Summon, yes. Even enlarge." But if you want something to taste nice, make it in a mixing bowl.
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
Oh man. Even though his answer wasn't declared as wrong, Theodore hadn't exactly said what the other kids had. He didn't actually know that conjured food DISAPPEARED.
But now he did, sooooo... he wrote that down. Yup.
"If it was possible to conjure food, I sure would do it." He wasn't sure about the other exceptions, though. He didn't agree with the love, life and information ones. Cos.... what would be the point in living if those things weren't earned and striven for on your own?
Money... "Yeah, and I'd conjure a bit of cash, too. Not like... to make me a millionaire." No, that was coming on it's own. One day, he'd be a star, yep. "But a bit of cash if I was running low... maybe." Like, if he had no spare change in Honeydukes. THAT sort of thing.
"BUUUUUT... not everyone would be as careful as I would be, so I don't think it's a good idea at all. It would cause an uproar I'm sure." He couldn't even begin to think about what that would do a community. It would tear the Muggles apart, if they could do it. Muggles are so greedy these days.
__________________
who could love me, I am out of my mind___________________________ _________________throwing a line out to sea to see if I can catch a dream
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
Thinking time.
She sucked the end of her quill while she thought before raising her hand. "I probably would, if I was really hungry or really REALLY desperate for money." Which would be abusing the POWAH she was given but...in all honesty, it was true. "But it'd probably upset the balance of...nature?"
elephant-astic•wanderlust•stay in the ninedaaays the original Taco Belle•look at the flowers✿
Ella listened as her classmates continued to answer, pretty impressed with what they were saying. When the older Ravenclaw girl answered, it really made Ella think. What if people could conjure up love for sad people out there? Would that mean that her dad could find love again, after everything that happened when her mom left? She would give anything to see him smile again the way he did when mom was around. But then where did the sadness go? Surely all those feelings, the bad ones, would still be there somewhere inside. Did that mean that her dad would one day just lose it, cause his emotions were temporarily buried due to the bliss of another relationship?
"While I think it would be brilliant if you could find love for all the lonely people out there...I think there's probably a reason they're lonely. Like they're too sad because they lost someone they loved, or are afraid to be in love. Even if you could remedy those feelings by finding them someone new...well w-wouldn't that only be a temporary fix? Cause then-well then when the love wore off...wouldn't that leave them even sadder than they originally were?" She shrugged, not really knowing the answer to the question she had asked. She just felt like people had to deal with their feelings to actually help fix them.
Puff by day, snake by night | Mj's bestie | Always UP to Something...
Minerva bit her lip thinking about this. If she could would she. This was such a hard one, especially with her life right now.She thought about her family and what it would be like if she could use these exceptions. It would be better, wouldn't it. She would have a happy loving family, not two cousins taking care of her that she really didn't want to be near, but even if she could use these would she. She thought about her time at church with her family and everything that was said. A good Min/bad Min started in her head. So many things she questioned about her self with this thought of a possibility.
Minerva put up her hand. "Professor, this is a very hard question. As much as I would like to say no I would not do it, it's wrong and people might think bad of me. I'm not sure I wouldn't use them. Especially the life at this moment, but if I were to go against everything I have ever learned as a child and be considered maybe even dark because of it, if the life could be produced exactly the way it left it's hard for me to say that I wouldn't. If the life exception could be used, but you still wouldn't have them exactly as before they left you then I'm going to say that I probably wouldn't use it."
She looked down at her desk wondering what her classmates thought of her. Even thinking about bringing family back from the dead made her feel like a bad person, but she just didn't know if she would go through with it or not given the opportunity to hug family members, feel their hugs, and hear their voices again.
For those who say "I'd just use a little bit of that"
¼ of the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pls
It took all his will not to roll his eyes at some people namely THAT RUDE RAVENCLAW girl. João pursed his lips, thinking for a moment. He taught of forming his ideas in nice, shiny words like his mother did. Then, slowly, he raised his hand and looked around at those people who said 'I'd use a little bit of this', eyes resting on THAT girl (Aspen) longer.
"All the... inequalities start with when one side just uses a little bit of something the other side doesn't have," he said calmly, but still in a way that was smug. "Every rich had just a little bit of money at first, right before they started having some more and more. These rules are exception for a reason. People are greedy and they won't stop at just a little." He wasn't talking about themselves, he was talking in general, though he would bet a thousand galleons they would turn into such a person too with suitable circumstances.
"But I don't think even if we had all the power, we would still not be discovered." Because Muggles were that silly not to observe at all."Because we're small in number and I believe even if we had the ability, it would still require a very strong witch or wizard to conjure these things. So they wouldn't be noteworthy."
Belle copied down the homework in the notebook. She couldn't miss the points the professor was talking about.
Quote:
"Love, exactly. You are all quite correct. It's an emotion that we all feel in a different way. True love is not something that can be created, or conjured, or forced upon another person. You can imitate certain aspects with potions, as you've mentioned, but the deep emotional aspects of love are an individual thing. Not something that can be universally reproduced."
"You all make a very good point. Being able to conjure, or produce money using magic would indeed mean that people would have an abundance of it to buy things with. But if no one needs to work for it, then there is a very strong chance there will be no one to sell or make the things people want to buy." If that made sense. So morals and common sense played a big part in that. "Of course you can conjure things, but as we know they don't last."
"Information is such a wide ranging thing, covering so many different topics, that being able to use magic to produce it all is nigh on impossible. The majority, not all, of what we know - the information in our heads - is learnt and based on facts. And if it was so easy to just conjure all that up, then...I wouldn't have a job." Isabelle chuckled, and gave the students a smile. Although they probably wished sometimes that they could do it, and not have to go to school.
"Life is so much more than just existing in a physical sense. A body can be reanimated to appear like it's alive, as the three of you have discussed," Issy said, gesturing to Alyssa, Minerva and West. "But it's not real. What makes a person who they are is what is in their mind and their hearts, and that is not something that can be produced via a spell or any kind of magic. Their spirit leaves, as the ghosts are an example of. You cannot get that back, however much you try."
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow
Ella was a little taken back by the Professor's next question. WOULD she use magic to get things like money, love, food, information, and life? She wanted to say no, that she would never even think of using magic to create these things. Mostly because something in her gut told her that it wasn't right. BUT what if there were extenuating circumstances? Would something like the loss of a loved one provide enough desperation to cause her to try and bring them back were it possible? The answer was yes, she probably would. If the situation seemed that grave.
"Professor, I think that were these things possible, everyone would have some kind of breaking point where they might cave in and use one of them. I mean desperation is a strong emotion and it sometimes leads people to do wreckless things that they wouldn't do were they in a rational state. I can't say that I wouldn't use magic to conjure food, were that possible, if I was starving and on the brink of death...not that the food would help much if there was no nutritional value to it."
Annabelle heard Ella's point and she agreed with it. "Professor i do agree with Ella's point. When people are on the brink of survival it leads people to do things they never thought they would. If i was on the brink of starvation, i would be hallucinating and maybe try to conjure food if i was in doubt. Like Ella said desperation is a very strong emotion and can affect people in different ways."
I Can Accept Failure. But I Can't Accept Not Trying
Jordan thought long and hard about this question asked by Professor Magnus. Would you get rid of any of those expectations? He was somewhat confused on what this question actually meant, so he stayed quiet until some other people decided to chip in.
curly haired prefect - "sometimes I get angry!" - 30/90 - *chicken emoji* - probably @ Disney - I speak dog
Quote:
It took all his will not to roll his eyes at some people namely THAT RUDE RAVENCLAW girl. João pursed his lips, thinking for a moment. He taught of forming his ideas in nice, shiny words like his mother did. Then, slowly, he raised his hand and looked around at those people who said 'I'd use a little bit of this', eyes resting on THAT girl (Aspen) longer.
"All the... inequalities start with when one side just uses a little bit of something the other side doesn't have," he said calmly, but still in a way that was smug. "Every rich had just a little bit of money at first, right before they started having some more and more. These rules are exception for a reason. People are greedy and they won't stop at just a little." He wasn't talking about themselves, he was talking in general, though he would bet a thousand galleons they would turn into such a person too with suitable circumstances.
"But I don't think even if we had all the power, we would still not be discovered." Because Muggles were that silly not to observe at all. "Because we're small in number and I believe even if we had the ability, it would still require a very strong witch or wizard to conjure these things. So they wouldn't be noteworthy."
Alex looked at the Slytherin boy who'd brought up a very good point and nodded. "I agree, especially when it comes to money--it'd be brilliant to have an extra galleon or two here and there, but then there's nothing stopping you from conjuring up thousands of galleons so you can take a luxury cruise to the Bahamas. Plus, you can't just MAKE your own money...that causes inflation and then screws up the rest of the economy," he explained. Those goblins would NOT be happy if they were suddenly faced with a possible economic collapse. They'd be looking at another rebellion!
"And as for love and life..." he continued. "I don't think anyone would have that much power. Imagine the chaos it could possibly create if people could force someone to fall in love with them willy nilly, or we had the power to bring people back to life whenever we wanted. I mean, there's a REASON the Imperius curse is Unforgivable--you can't just play with people's emotions or actions like that. It's inhumane. The ONLY possible exception I think would be ok is food, because of the need to conjure it in the wild, like some people already mentioned. I'm a bit skeptical on that though, too, because if people start getting lazy and just conjuring food whenever they want, obesity might rise in the wizarding world or people who sell food might go out of business because people can make their own," he added.
__________________
I'm still standin'________________________________________ better than I ever did
Lookin' like a true survivor_________________________________feelin' like a little kid
Ability is nothing without Opportunity | | Creativity is Intelligence having FUN
SPOILER!!: zeProf
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithRodneyMckay
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
OOC: There is no right or wrong answer to this, purely what sort of opinion your character has on the subject. Discuss it among yourselves, and ask questions of Isabelle and each other if you wish. But again, PLEASE BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.
Whoah... great question.
Vickers eyed the list on the board again-- what IF he can conjure a genuine version of all of those listed? His thoughts immediately goes to his mother, robbed off him when he was barely old enough to form a tangible memory. What he would do to be able to talk to her from across the grave! Even just one kind word would matter so much to him, there was a longing he felt that children with at least one living parent wouldnt understand.
If he was being completely selfish, he would say yes. He wanted to see his mother, not something seen through a magical artifact or something happening in his head-- like really see and talk to her. He felt it was his magical right Merlin's sake!
But he closed his eyes and rested his head on his hands, calmed down and thought things over carefully. After a while he raised a tentative hand " Professor, it would seem like such a remarkable thing-- noble even-- to conjure food and money out of thin air to give the downtrodden, make ignorance history by simply making people know everything, or bringing those passed-away back to the living for a moment for a chance to communicate with loved ones left behind... or like what Ms Aspen said, give love to those who never felt it... but one would have to wonder if giving people exactly what they want would make the world a better place?"
"Those exceptions are set in place for a reason--even if we dont fully understand or agree with them. Each of those five exceptions have a direct correlation with Nature, with our world. And our world is dependent on keeping things balanced. As it is, we are already having a hard time keeping things balanced with those exceptions still in place-- the greedy hoard the resources and everybody else suffers from it. Waving a wand or snapping a finger isnt going to correct this imbalance. We have to find it in ourselves to distribute these resources fairly to those who need it-- we need to learn to share, we have to find it in ourselves to heal and move on with life, reach out and touch people's lives. Because truthfully we dont have to break those exceptions to right the wrongs in this world, the answers are already here, in each of us."
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++Tenacius ++🐦++ Salander++🐦++ Deo ++🐦++ Vickers ++🐦++ Huxley ++🐦+ Aquila++ Yeah thats what crazy is, when its broken you say theres nothing to fix++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++And you pray that everything will be okay, while you're making all the same mistakes
There's some good in this world and it's worth fighting for| LOTR|Whovian|Sherlock Fan
SPOILER!!: Professor Magnus
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithRodneyMckay
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
OOC: There is no right or wrong answer to this, purely what sort of opinion your character has on the subject. Discuss it among yourselves, and ask questions of Isabelle and each other if you wish. But again, PLEASE BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.
Alyssa pondered on the question that the Professor had posed next. Would she or wouldn't she if she had the ability to do so, Alyssa questioned herself. She say and listened as the other students gave their opionions and then she raised her hand and answered.
"Professor I agree with the others, especially Vickers. I don't think that even if we had the ability to do all the exceptions mentioned that it would be a good thing. Everything that happens in the world requires a balance in order for life to move forward. If not there would be ultimately chaos everywhere."
"First with money, once a person has the ability to make their own, then there would be so much floating around that it ceases to be of any value. On the other hand, I'm sure a very poor person would be very happy to be able to make money to pay off their debts. But it always seems that with money, comes greed. The more you have, the more you want. So no to money"
"With Food, again, I'm sure a person who is poor, hungry and has no food would love to have that ability to make their own food and be able to feed their families." Alyssa paused to think about the consequences of that.
"But if people had the ability to make their own food, then there would be no need to buy it, hence no need for money. But what is worst is that they'll end up making so much food and eating it that they will end up being fat and obese and suffer from health problems. And so unfortunately, no to food either."
"As for information, like you said if everyone was walking around super smart, then they woud drive each other crazy, because they will all have their own opinions, and then arguments would start if they don't happen to agree with someone else, and then fights and then rebellions." Alyssa paused when she realized that she was getting overly excited.
"I believe that there's a reason why there are people who know more than others. Work would never be done if everybody was a leader and there were no workers or followers. So sorry. no to information as well."
"Love is something that one feels inside. It comes from one's emotions and thoughts and feelings. Yes you can make a person love you but what is stopping somebody else from doing the same to that same person. That poor person would be confused. Free will is the most important thing here. Being able to love someone because you want to and not because you are made to. So no to love too."
Alyssa paused to think about life. She would love to have the ability to bring back her family members who were killed in a car accident but she knew that with everything there was a price to pay for doing that. So she gave her answer regarding Life.
"I'm sure that anyone given the opportunity would want to bring back somebody they love back to life again. But if everyone got to live, then the world will end up being over populated." She paused to think of another reason.
"I believe that free will comes into play here too. What if the person died of an incurable disease and had been suffering. Bringing that person back to life, does not guarantee that the person will be cured of their disease. You would just be prolonging their agony. There is a saying from the Bible that says that there is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die. If we tip that balance of life and death, chaos will ultimately follow."
"So no to all exceptions. We shoud not have the ability to change that."
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life, etc.- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them?
"Well..." Ariana paused to gather her thoughts before taking a breath and beginning. "I definitely think that money should not be conjured. It would only inspire greed, and people would abuse that kind of power. Plus, there would be so much inflation that the economy would plummet. Nobody would be able to buy anything without carting around stacks and stacks of galleons. Money would pretty much become obsolete if everyone had as much as they wanted." Okay, then... next was love, right?
"Second of all, love. I don't think that that should be allowed either. Even love potions are wrong, because they pretty much strip someone of their free will and force them to act in a way that they aren't. Making someone you love love you back might seem like a good idea at the time, but it is really wrong, and it wouldn't even be real." Gee, this sure was a long answer. Ariana hoped she wasn't going to talk toooo much.
"Creating life is something that's been the subject of many, many films and books, both in the muggle and wizard worlds. I can't think of one example where it's gone right. However, if it were possible to create life, I think there would be two results. First of all, if one were trying to bring back someone who had died, they would probably have been happier in death. For example, the Resurrection Stone brought back souls, but they usually preferred it where they had been. Now, if someone were trying to create life from scratch by magic, then I can just say that the world would be extremely, extremely, overpopulated by now."
"As for information, it would seem almost flat and useless if we could have it whenever we wanted. There would be no feeling of satisfaction when you finally figure out the answer to a difficult question, no moment of understanding when everything just fits together suddenly. Not only that, but if everyone knew everything, there would be no need for school!" And if Hogwarts didn't exist, Ariana would certainly be sad. There was just one more exception now, and Ariana actually had a different feeling about this one than the others.
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Originally Posted by FireboltAvis88
"With Food, again, I'm sure a person who is poor, hungry and has no food would love to have that ability to make their own food and be able to feed their families." Alyssa paused to think about the consequences of that.
"But if people had the ability to make their own food, then there would be no need to buy it, hence no need for money. But what is worst is that they'll end up making so much food and eating it that they will end up being fat and obese and suffer from health problems. And so unfortunately, no to food either."
"I agree with everything that Alyssa's said apart from this. I think that, in a hypothetical situation where the creation of food was possible, it should be allowed. There are still other things to be bought, so while the economy would suffer, it could be fixed. And in my opinion, it's much more important to be able to keep yourself from starving than to possibly eat too much. It isn't like people don't become obese now just from buying too much food, and I doubt that this will change much as long as people are still educated about how much they should eat."
Okay, wow. Ariana was not expecting to have said that much when she started out answering this question. She finished up her answer and then smiled awkwardly before shutting her mouth. Too many words.
Hit Wiz love | 1/2 of Bensky | Louisa's baby claw. <3 | kewe
Sheesh... what was this a morality class? This question especially would be difficult to answer. Would she really want to be able to create these things? Especially money? Like some of the other students, Lily felt that if she did create one of these things, she would end up feeling greedy and always want more. Her parents must have taught her well, because in truth, the only one that she would be tempted to have would be the life one. She never wanted her parents to die. But there were problems with that, so she wasn't sure she would want that either.
The whole topic was hard to figure out an answer, so instead, Lily just sat there listening to the others while trying to come up with an answer of her own. So she started going through each topic individually.
Text Cut: Lily's parchment of thoughts
Love: Pros-could get anyone to love you...anyone at all.
Cons- it wouldn't really be real love... you can't actually create real love. Money: Pros-you could have all you want, whenever you want, and never run out of money.
Cons- You would be very greedy and never be able to stop making money. Eventually, the money would be worthless and you'd be back where you started. Food: Pros-You could have whatever food you want, when you want it. Nobody would starve.
Cons- Everyone would get really fat... and there would be tons of health problems. Information: Pros- you could know everything. School would be worthless because you could just get the information on the spot, whenever you needed it.
Cons- discoveries would be worthless because everyone would already know about it when you discovered it. I would miss school and learning... Life: Pros- nobody would have to die, because they could always come back to life.
Cons- the world would be full of people...including bad people, and we wouldn't be able to get rid of any pests, because they could always come back to life also...
After spending a few minutes writing down her thoughts, Lily decided to answer. "I wouldn't want to be able to create any of these things. It's just not worth it..." She said glancing down at the list on the parchment in front of her. It just wouldn't be worth all the negative things.
Wandering back over to her desk, Issy turned and scanned the room. "That is a good segue into my next question for you all. If it WERE possible to do all the things the exceptions say we can't, would you? If our magical abilities could be honed to a level in which we could produce real money, real love, real life excetera- should the wizarding community do so? Would you get rid of any of these exceptions if you had the chance?" Or would their morals get the better of them.
OOC: There is no right or wrong answer to this, purely what sort of opinion your character has on the subject. Discuss it among yourselves, and ask questions of Isabelle and each other if you wish. But again, PLEASE BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.
"I think these exceptions should remain" said Sarah ominously. "If all our wishes were granted with a flick of a wand, then we would have nothing to hope for. We will have no goals and nothing to live for. Boundries give us more life, than if they weren;t there. People would be lazy - society ruined. What is life without toil? I think it is lke the endless steppes of Russia, wher there are no ups or downs, just flat land."
Chris knew his answer before the the professor had spoken his last word, "No, as much easier as it would be to be able to make people love me, it would be disrespecting their freedom of choice and it would be very immoral." That was one that Chris knew the answer to by instinct. "Also, nobody would have to earn money, it would be all to easy and would most definitely mess up the Wizarding World economy. Creating food though, in dire circumstances, would be very useful. Like, for example, if you were lost in the woods without food or water and were near starvation. Although you could most likely always appirate to somewhere where there was food. Also, if you could create food there would be no need to buy it with money, which relates to my previous response about creating money, so it would also be immoral."
Creating life? Now that one was just wrong! "And I don't even want to think about being able to create life magically..."
Shifting the papers on her desk to the side, Isabelle created enough space to sit down. So she did. Pushing herself up, her legs swinging slightly as she moved further back and got comfortable. She was eager to hear what the kids thought on this subject.
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Originally Posted by PhoenixStar
Hmmm...Hannah thought about this for a moment. With a raised hand she responded with "Professor I think love is something that can't be messed with because that is a way that a person feels. You can't really make they stop or start loving you with a wave of a wand." She wasn't sure why anybody would want to do that anyways. Ugh!
Would Hannah do all of these things if she could? Ummm heck yeah. She wasn't going to lie and she dang sure wasn't ashamed to admit it. She could rule the world with that kinda power. "Professor if I could I would. Could you imagine what kind of power you would have? I think it would be awesome." she said with a raised hand. I mean sure that would mean that the others would be capable of the same kind of power and that could be bad and Hannah wouldn't want other people making her love them, but that wouldn't happen because she would just make sure that she was the most powerful ever. Duh!
"Power, yes." Isabelle had her own opinions on all this, but she was going to play Devil's Advocate to them, if she could. Counteract their positive with a negative, and their negative with a positive.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely," she said simply, raising an eyebrow at the girl.
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Originally Posted by kayquilz
Elliot narrowed her eyebrows, something she did whenever she was thinking particularly hard. Hmm. Money equals power and prestige...and of course, Elliot wanted power. It was in her very blood. Her father wouldn't want those exceptions to transfiguration...but would she? She imagined herself being able to conjure all the money she wanted...who cares about love? Money is power.
She turned to glare at Hannah, but eventually a smirk broke out on her face. Looks like Hannah was having the same thoughts. But then that would mean everyone would be rich and powerful. And equal. People weren't made to be equal...
"While I do desire power, and power for my family, I do not think these exceptions should ever be bypassed. They should always exist. Money, which usually leads to power, should be earned. If everyone could become rich, then there would be no power, for everyone would be equal," she directed this at Hannah, her smirk growing haughtier by the minute. Hmm. What would her friend have to say to this, eh? Elliot chuckled to herself.
"Should we not all strive to be equal, though? Treat each other equally." The way you'd wish to be treated and such.
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Originally Posted by HOPEendures
If she could would she? Jezzabelle stared at nothing in particular and became a little distant as her mind raced. If they could do those things would she let them be done? It was her parents right to divorce and her grandfathers right to pass away but she was selfish enough to think that if it could be done she would do it.
"I don't believe in taking away someone's free will," she started out slowly, "it wouldn't be fair to make someone love you when they have every right to love whomever they'd like. It's also a persons right to pass on and move off from this world and I could never do that to someone I loved but..." Yes, there was a but. A big but, "I would do it if it was possible though. I'd cause my parents to love each other again and I would bring my grandfather back even though I'd be taking away their free will to do as they please. I'd do it without a second thought and regret my decisions later."
Did that mean she was a bad person for wanting to have the chance to be happy? Was she wrong for wanting these things? To have her family restored back to how it used to be? She didn't really think so. It's not like she could anyway. Those were the rules and no one is above them. Would anyone agree with her though? If they had lost someone they loved dearly, would they want to bring them back?
"Regrets are something you have to live with though. Doing those things might make you happy for a while, but would your conscience allow you to stay that way?" Isabelle gave the Gryffindor a warm smile, just to show she wasn't attacking her opinion merely expanding on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Eye Touz
Aspen was a little wary when the Professor approached her. Suspicious even. She shrugged in response, not wanting all that one-on-one attention in front of the whole class. After class, sure, or office hours, but not like this. Aspen waited until other people started answering before slipping in her reply.
...mostly she waited for West to answer. He ALWAYS had an answer and much to Aspen's delight, and pride, he almost always checked her way before or after. She gave him an encouraging little nod, as always.
"I still think they're exceptions because of our inabilities. But, even if we did learn how to create those things listed in Gamp's Law, they'd still be exceptions. The government would certainly make their own laws to keep everything in check, particularly if you consider the Statute of Secrecy. We can't very well have all the riches, love, and food in the world and not go unnoticed." So that answered the Professor's first question, and Aspen paused, mouth set and head tilted while she puzzled out the morals of it. Hmm.
"In a way, do you think it's sort of like the Unforgivables? That some would see being able to conjure up money as bad, but if you knew all the circumstances, maybe it wouldn't be that bad after all? What if I just conjured up enough money to buy robes? Or a house? What if... love was conjured up for really, really sad people that couldn't find it on their own? Is it really so bad to conjure up happiness? The same could be said for the unforgiveables, when they're being used as protection, or for some other bettering of the world."
Sort of. Or at least that was Aspen's initial thoughts.
Nodding, Issy took in what Aspen said, and formed a reply in her head.
"Of course, the problem is not everyone would conjure up just enough for things. There would always be people that went too far and wanted more and more. And would conjuring love for other people not be taking their free will away, as someone else mentioned, and removing their ability to do it for themselves?"
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Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow
Ella listened as her classmates continued to answer, pretty impressed with what they were saying. When the older Ravenclaw girl answered, it really made Ella think. What if people could conjure up love for sad people out there? Would that mean that her dad could find love again, after everything that happened when her mom left? She would give anything to see him smile again the way he did when mom was around. But then where did the sadness go? Surely all those feelings, the bad ones, would still be there somewhere inside. Did that mean that her dad would one day just lose it, cause his emotions were temporarily buried due to the bliss of another relationship?
"While I think it would be brilliant if you could find love for all the lonely people out there...I think there's probably a reason they're lonely. Like they're too sad because they lost someone they loved, or are afraid to be in love. Even if you could remedy those feelings by finding them someone new...well w-wouldn't that only be a temporary fix? Cause then-well then when the love wore off...wouldn't that leave them even sadder than they originally were?" She shrugged, not really knowing the answer to the question she had asked. She just felt like people had to deal with their feelings to actually help fix them.
"And that's what I meant. Some people may not wish for love to be thrust upon them by others. Even if it worked and they were no longer lonely, what happens when love fades? Sometimes even true love isn't foolproof, or everlasting."
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Originally Posted by Steelsheen
Whoah... great question.
Vickers eyed the list on the board again-- what IF he can conjure a genuine version of all of those listed? His thoughts immediately goes to his mother, robbed off him when he was barely old enough to form a tangible memory. What he would do to be able to talk to her from across the grave! Even just one kind word would matter so much to him, there was a longing he felt that children with at least one living parent wouldnt understand.
If he was being completely selfish, he would say yes. He wanted to see his mother, not something seen through a magical artifact or something happening in his head-- like really see and talk to her. He felt it was his magical right Merlin's sake!
But he closed his eyes and rested his head on his hands, calmed down and thought things over carefully. After a while he raised a tentative hand " Professor, it would seem like such a remarkable thing-- noble even-- to conjure food and money out of thin air to give the downtrodden, make ignorance history by simply making people know everything, or bringing those passed-away back to the living for a moment for a chance to communicate with loved ones left behind... or like what Ms Aspen said, give love to those who never felt it... but one would have to wonder if giving people exactly what they want would make the world a better place?"
"Those exceptions are set in place for a reason--even if we dont fully understand or agree with them. Each of those five exceptions have a direct correlation with Nature, with our world. And our world is dependent on keeping things balanced. As it is, we are already having a hard time keeping things balanced with those exceptions still in place-- the greedy hoard the resources and everybody else suffers from it. Waving a wand or snapping a finger isnt going to correct this imbalance. We have to find it in ourselves to distribute these resources fairly to those who need it-- we need to learn to share, we have to find it in ourselves to heal and move on with life, reach out and touch people's lives. Because truthfully we dont have to break those exceptions to right the wrongs in this world, the answers are already here, in each of us."
And Vickers had more or less hit the nail on the head, as far as the way Isabelle felt. Of course that didn't make the rest of them wrong, far from it. Just different in their opinions. "I agree with you, Mister Vanderbilt."
"I'm so glad that you've all put so much thought into the question. The truth is, there are pros and cons, an argument for and against, for all these exceptions. Yes, it would be nice to be able to conjure food to feed the starving - but doing so would also mean people that sold food would lose their jobs because they'd no longer be needed. Having money on tap, while a nice thought, would mean the economy would suffer. And love and life are so complex that happiness at being with someone, or having them back, wouldn't necessarily last."
Flicking her wand at the board, Isabelle erased the first lot of writing, and re-wrote the second part. Leaving enough space for the kids to write their names etc.
"Thank you all for your input in that discussion, I hope you all got something from it. Information on the reasons why they're exceptions at the very least. But now I'd like to move on to another discussion, a more light hearted one I hope."
Isabelle didn't move from her seated position on her desk, instead she just pointed at the board using her wand as a guide. "What I'd like you all to do is come up here and fill in the information I've asked for - with just a one word, or one sentence reason please. Then we can expand on it all in a jiffy."
OOC: Last post for the night. Please have your character come up and fill it in. PLEASE QUOTE THE BOARD DETAILS FROM THE LAST PERSON TO POST (above you). THAT WAY ALL THE NAMES WILL BE ON THE LIST IN EACH QUOTE - RATHER THAN JUST INDIVIDUAL NAMES IN EACH POST. Thank you. We'll move on to the discussion tomorrow.
Puff by day, snake by night | Mj's bestie | Always UP to Something...
Minerva listened to all the discussions and then to Professor Magnus. She got up out of her seat and went to the front of the room to fill out the information Professor Magnus wanted.
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Name: Minerva Wheatborn Favourite Spell: "Ristaris!" Reason:I really enjoy changing mine and my friends hair to different colors all the time.
Raspberry Jam | #ChocolateFrogFamous | Ultimate Fangirl
This was turning into one hell of a discussion! Theodore wrote down some bits of what the other kids were saying, but it was too many words really. He zoned out, but snapped back when it was time for the next task. Oh, was it just transfiguration spells in question?
He guessed so. This being transfiguration class and all.
Theo got up and wrote his stuffs out underneath the last person.
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Name: Minerva Wheatborn Favourite Spell: "Ristaris!" Reason:I really enjoy changing mine and my friends hair to different colors all the time.
Name: Theodore Kinsley Favourite Spell: Orchideous Reason: It's just lovely. Flowers on demand. Lovely.
He'd never actually performed the spell, but he had read about it. Nodding, Theodore went back to his seat. Yup.
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who could love me, I am out of my mind___________________________ _________________throwing a line out to sea to see if I can catch a dream
Transfiguration Lesson One 
x5 
x6
Yeah thats what crazy is, when its broken you say theres nothing to fix++++++++++++++++++++
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