 DP Editor-in-chiefPuffskein
Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: London
Posts: 1,580
Hogwarts RPG Name:
Erik Odin Vinteren
Graduated |  Vinteren, Erik Vinteren
Text Cut: your answers Quote:
Originally Posted by lemon  "Sources, professor?" Alice had remained fairly quiet for the majority of the lesson, eyes glued to her name tag as she tried to avoid that face Selina had been so obsessed with. But she was talking now, hand up and everything, even though she still wasn't making direct eye contact. "People who were there document the information, such as about where they died and when, by people using the.. historical method?" Or something. "Like the use of primary and secondary sources and all. Historiography."
.. if that didn't make any sense, they could blame his face. His face was distracting.
At least she wasn't stammering now, or blushing, that would have been worse than spouting nonsense in a lesson. Quote:
Originally Posted by FearlessLeader19 Well, Jory certainly knew how he knew about most of those death. He raised his hand. "Professor, the facts were documented in books,'' he said. "The information most likely would have had to come from witnesses, the ones who survived the Battle.'' Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniDiNardo As oblivious as Lex was she noticed the wince; she had a habit of noticing the things she wanted to notice but she couldn't figure why.
...
Nope...nothing was coming to mind so she disregarded it. "Yup, much better!" She said looking at the corrections he'd made. "Millie the wombat was killed too but I don't figure you were looking for her as an answer." But why not? She'd been a victim of the man-eating plant. She squealed and screech just like the other two she'd seen.
Oh, how is it possible?
"Through the work of curious people. There's always this one guy who'll want to know what happened, when it happened and why. That guy's usually all for spreading the news and taking the credit afterwards so he'll spread it. This leads to the introduction of people who just like gossiping and getting stuff around. You can always count on them to get the story further and the more people know is the harder it is for the story to die. So like, not everyone saw Professor Burbage get taken but they heard about it from others in the class and probably passed it on as well."
The system of communication could sometimes be a helpful way of preserving things. Quote:
Originally Posted by Meizzner It was pretty freaky that the Professor was thinking the same thing he was. You would think Hogwarts was a safe place. But you would have to question that logic by looking at the list on the board.
"Well you can look at primary and secondary sources.Or travel back in time and view the event. But that is a bad idea."
Nigel at least wanted to say more than he did no the first question. This topic was beginning to interest him. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazinga Minerva gave a weak smile, how did she not hear someone give the answer before she had said it. Well that was just not right of her. Trying to think about the list again and seeing if she could remember anyone else, Min heard him ask another question. That was a great question though, how could we be certain.
"Professor, witnesses to the events are the best source of information, but even then in their state of shock or dismay they might get some fact wrong. For instance most of us were in class when the Astronomy professor was taken, some of us knew what plant it was right away from seeing it before hand, others had no clue. In that state of shock some said she died right there, while others knew and saw her being carried away alive." Still sitting straight and taking a little pause, "So research of the situations and finding out specific details can help us really find the answer of where and how they died." She would have went into more of the muggle way of doing it, but figured the investigation part might be different for wizards. Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd Jake had been very quiet for some time now. Mostly because he was keeping a very sarcastic answer to himself about a certain Ravenclaw that hadn't actually died, but had nearly become plant food at Hogwarts. He figured that wouldn't count as a real answer (and he didn't want to make his girlfriend mad), and he couldn't think of a real answer, anyway.
Now that the subject had somewhat changed, though, his brain got working again. Jake raised his hand. "Witnesses, professor. If there's enough witnesses that say one thing, it's usually taken as fact, right? Or... say there are no witnesses. Maybe a body's just found. That would be enough proof to assume that that's where the person died." Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegz Thinking face.
Hand up.
"We don't know for sure, in most of those cases. We just believe that what we have read is true because we expect historical accounts to be accurate. But if one book had a misprint or something, the misprint could easily be passed on as fact once the people who were there aren't around to correct it." Which sort of lead to... "And the accounts from eye witnesses can sometimes be filtered by things like fear or pain so they can be a bit wrong too sometimes. The best way Wizardkind has to see for sure what happened would be to view an untampered memory in a pensieve." Quote:
Originally Posted by Princesspower Sarah fought against herself for sometime and eventually her hand won out and it was raised in the air. "Well we have first person accounts, however as West said the best way is a pensieve as people tend to have a bias on what they say, subconsiouly of course in fact they don't realize it. Muggle's learn history through eyewitness accounts and they have their sources grouped as primary sources and secondary sources. However just like I said before there can biased" Sarah remembered learning about the cconflicting account on storming teh Bastille during the French revulution. Quote:
Originally Posted by McFeisty Blink blink. Hey? Myrtle wasn’t on that list – and pfft…they really knew where she had died because – well, she had told people. She kept telling people. That made it obviously irrefutable right? That and it was the first death at Hogwarts in centuries. And the first one linked to Voldy.
Hand UPPPP.
“In some cases we are not quite sure – however, a lot of them had witnesses – especially the more recent ones.” She bit her lip then continued speaking, “For example with the Greenhouses where Professor Burbage and Professor Christiansen both died there was almost another victim.” She glanced around – all claws knew this yeah? He was a former Claw after all. “That would be the very unlucky former Ravenclaw, Milton Shacklebolt.” She sent a quiet smile. That made the death area of them a known fact. Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry174 Laura looked at the Professor. "Well it's simple really sir, someone told someone who told someone else, who told someone else." Laura said truthfully, "Who then lied and told someone else, which meant that another rumour spread and that's how loads of people get wrong information and how we know where the person is." Laura smiled. Quote:
Originally Posted by hermionesclone This was a difficult topic for people? ... YEAH! Not to him but... people.
But Professor Man said that there was a point behind all of this. And Alec was kind of curious as to what this point was.
Oh? How did they know this stuff? "Erm... Professor?" he said, raising his hand in the air. Should he call him that? Or was he just 'Mr'? "Erm... going along with what Jake said, if a body is found years later, aren't there ways of figuring out how the person died?" You know, the things you find in crime shows.
"And some people were taken to Azkaban for murders, right? So... erm... if they still had that same wand on them that they used to cast the curse, a check would tell you who they murdered. Then it's just a matter of finding the body." He was just... going to leave it at that. Quote:
Originally Posted by TakemetotheBurrow Morbid class was morbid. Ella listened to all the people who had died in the school and just sort of thought on it for a bit. She couldn't ever picture being in a battle at the age she was now. Actually, she couldn't ever picture herself in a battle...though she'd dreamt what that might be like. Shudder. But to see friends and people you knew and liked die, it was awful.
Another question?
"Like others have said, word of mouth is probably the most probable way we've heard about these things. It's not all together accurate, though, as people's points of view differ greatly during events like this and your own thoughts and presumptions sometimes filter into your account without you realizing." Quote:
Originally Posted by DecemberMoon Still feeling pleased that the professor had liked her answer, Eliza listened to the others giving examples with a small smile on her face. She felt like there had been a lot of good answers given, and thought the points Mr. Vinteren had made were good ones to keep in mind.
She had liked the hands on things they'd done in the past with History of Magic, like the walled up rooms with the riddles. That had been neat. Other than that, she learned most of what she knew by reading it or by hearing it passed down through word of mouth.
She shrunk in her seat a bit at the mention of so much death at Hogwarts. She was saddened of course that two of her professors had passed away within the castle, but at the same time, she still hadn't known any of the very personally. She couldn't think of a name and location of a death someone hadn't already offered up, except for the jobberknolls from last year, but she wasn't sure if he was including animals or not. Though she thought they should be recognized too. She kept quiet, feeling that she didn't have much of a right to speak of the dead as if she had known anything about them. She more liked to give them respect by not throwing emotionless facts about them... Then again, she knew the only way to know it happened was to acknowledge it.
This next part she felt better about answering though, so she raised her hand. "Professor," even though he'd told them the title wasn't necessary, "We usually know about things because our elders or other people we know relay the information to us. Sometimes it's done by story or song, or sometimes just in a conversation. Information can get misinterpreted and skewed though, so it's best to always take what you hear with a grain of salt. Even text books aren't completely accurate, because it's so hard to stay neutral when reporting on this you haven't witnessed first hand. Even then it would be hard." She paused for a breath and added. "I like West's idea of using the pensieve more often. Then books could be transcribed from all sides of every story, to be thorough and unbiased." She would normally still be a bit down about all of the death talk, but for whatever reason, she seemed to be keeping her head above it today. Quote:
Originally Posted by Team ronmione Tag's mind went blank when the Professor asked how people knew how these people died at Hogwarts. The answer was probably simple but Tag couldn't think of anything so he merely listened to everyone's answer.
"Oh, oh, I agree with Alec's last point about the wand check." YEAH! You go Tag. The blonde looked over at his friend nodded at Alec and gave him a smile. There. Alec just provided Tag with his answer. Sort of. Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Govoni "Sir...." Yep, Dylan was trying. He'd promise he would... "...Legilimens? If a person was trying to see if something was factual, couldn't....that personn...just go into someone's else's mind and check for themselves? If people who had witnessed it were still alive, of course...." Naturally, you'd want that person's permission first before doing so...but wouldn't that be a method, too?
"It's been over 80 years, yes...but I'm sure people offered their memories up at the time...so people would know. Because people knowing is important, I think." Nod. Dylan would...if he'd witnessed things and it needed to be recorded for historical means. Quote:
Originally Posted by Emzily So many questions in one bundle. GAH, he was getting confused, but he raised his hand just to spout out some of his regular rubbish.
"Because people witnessed it and re-told their story." Like... have a lil bit of faith in humanity, here. We aren't all liars. Theo opened his mouth to say more stuff, but honestly, he didn't know enough to continue. He just hushed up and started doodling a picture of a quaffle on his piece of parchment. Quote:
Originally Posted by hpfan18 Kace had no idea who died at Hogwarts. He heard the other student's answers and thought they seemed pretty legit. He liked listening to the other student's answers and brainstorming what he knew. Many students were mentioning his ideas while he was brainstorming.
Kace wasn't liking the idea of studying deaths of people but i guess that was part of history? Death always either turned history around or affected it somehow. After he heard the student's give their answers, Kace really didn't have any idea of where Professor Quirrell died. Kace knew from his mother that he died in a dungeon because Harry Potter was trying to save the stone. Then he heard the professor move on.
He wanted to know one thing about a death, "Professor couldn't Lord Voldemort's snake nagini be considered a death to the list?"
How did people know about these deaths? Good question. He raised his hand and said, "Well professor people know about these deaths from countless sources whether they witnessed the event or hearing it from someone else. Retelling the story can help people understand what happened."
That is all he knew for now. Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysSnapesGirl Penelope didn't have much to add or change on the list of people and locations - none that hadn't already been said, at least - and she didn't have much to say on the battle-related questions. Everyone had said everything and then some that she thought of. The last question though, about Burbage, she could probably answer that one. So she raised her hand. "We know about her because it was pretty recent. A lot of us were around to see it. Not actually see her die but....heard her get dragged out of the room...and she didn't come back so..." So yeah. They knew she was dead, unfortunately. Quote:
Originally Posted by lazykitty Okay, so she might've been sulking a little after having been told off. But she had been paying attention. And thinking that this topic was a little morbid. Not that she was going to say so out loud. Professor Vinteren realized it though so....
Anyway, she thought about the question. "If excellent records, for example: death certificates, have been kept, they can really reveal a lot. Plus, not really in this case but in others, well preserved artifacts can also tell a lot." Which was why archeology was so important. But she would stop with that because it didn't really relate to the topic at hand. But one thing was bothering her that did relate to the topic. "Didn't Harry Potter technically die in the forrest on the grounds? I mean, he was revived, but he was dead for a few minutes, right?"
While the students were providing answers, and some were still answering his question about those who had died at Hogwarts, Erik made another list on the board beside the first. And he highlighted one of the answers in blue.
First, he would answer questions before he explained further. "Nagini died at Hogwarts, yes, but she vas never truly a living being. She only had qualities shared vith Lord Voldemort because she vas his Horcrux. But Harry Potter," he gave a nod to Roxanne's niece or whatever, "could be added to the list." So he made that amendment. "Now, you'll notice vhat I haff made another list here, of your answers. Excellent responses," this time. "But vhere is one in particular I vould like to call your attention to...as Mr. Summers said, vhere is a wizardly way of figuring out how someone died." He allowed them a moment to look at the list. How to Corroborate a Story --primary sources
-----eyewitnesses
-----testimony of eyewitnesses
-----writing of eyewitnesses
-----witness' memories --secondary sources
-----textbooks
-----photographs
-----rumours --research -----spellwork
-----legilimency
-----Veritaserum
-----examining sources
-----examining the body
-----examining artefacts, crime scene "I haff highlighted 'spellwork' in blue because I vill be teaching you a spell today vhat can tell you vhether or not someone died in a particular area, and if vhey did, vhere they died exactly. Vhis spell is not only used by historians to corroborate stories of vhen/vhere a person died, but it can also be used by law enforcement to investigate crimes." Morbid, very morbid, but also deadly pun intended useful. "Vhe spell is 'spiritum revelio' - don't try it now, not yet - and it is closely related to the charm 'homenum revelio.' Can anyvone tell me vhat homenum revelio does, or vhen you use it?" |